Re: Debain on the rise ! - However ....
From: Micha Feigin (micha_at_luna.mooo.com)
Date: 02/05/04
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Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:58:04 +0200 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 07:13:01PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> CCing this just in case WB has left the building...
>
> On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 11:32:48AM -0700, W. B. Maguire II wrote:
> > And what about discretization in other areas? I asked a question about the
> > Debian install (3.0 r1) not recognizing my HDDs connected to a Rocket-133
> > PCI-IDE card (a few days ago---titled "New Debian install + Rocket133 = no
> > HDDs! (Please help...").
>
> Adding pleas for help ("Please help" "HELP!!" or similar) on *any*
> high traffic mailing list usually causes everybody else's brain to
> automatically s/$PLEA/I'm a noob without a clue and entitlement
> issues, delete me and move on/ .
>
> You might have greater success after giving ESR's howto a readthrough.
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> > The end result? The end result is unfortunate for Debian. I really *did*
> > want to try Debian, but with the only response I got to my
> > hour-long-researching-post being "compile your own kernel", that pretty
> > much shut this new-comer down!
>
> If I had seen it, I would have asked if you had read the Installation
> Manual (http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/install), or
> suggest you try Knoppix.
>
> > In the few days that I have been on this list, I can
> > say that I have seen many, many requests for help go unanswered.
>
> It's not our fault that people still haven't gotten the hang of
> effectively communicating in written form almost 40 years after the
> creation of email, and several millennia after the advent of written
> language. We exist because we don't want to cater to the Great Unwashed.
>
> > Maybe I'll be able to give Debian a try at some point in the future, but at
> > this point, it feels almost unsupported to me. I'm not saying that there's
> > no help here, I'm just saying that the volume is *crushing*, and that it
> > seems that many of the requests for help are being lost in the volume!
>
> Is your mail reader threaded? You'd notice that the vast majority of
> messages are parts of existing threads. Most threads get response.
> If you don't get a response, you're doing something that's causing
> people to avoid that thread (bad subject, not enough info, looks even
> remotely like another AOL idiot thinking we care about their "printer
> icon", etc).
>
> > It sounds to me that you imply that anyone who doesn't have a good mail
> > client just shouldn't bother with this list.
>
> Well, you're on the right track. Anybody who doesn't have a good mail
> client shouldn't bitch that they get burned by volume. Especially on
> this list. Just popping open tin real quick and searching my news
> server, I see these newsgroups *all* mirror this list (post by sending
> directly to the list):
>
> apana.lists.os.linux.debian.user
> jlug.ml.debian.users
> linux.debian.user
>
> I also know of (but don't seem to carry)...gmane.debian.user
>
> There's also a digest version.
>
> Anybody who has a bad mail client has no business using email. 8:o)
>
> > I, myself, haven't had the time to migrate to Mutt on my RH9 Linux
> > box, so I'm temporarily putting-up with Eudora on Win98 (even though
> > I *hate* it and Windows!).
>
What about kmail or evolution (probably mozilla variations but I don't
know them)? Very similar to eudora in feel, easy to set up (not as
strong as mutt IMHO though). They can thread, filter, separate into
mailboxes using rules/origin etc. I think they can even use spamassassin
and friends.
This list becomes much more menagable with threading.
> Fastest, easiest way to solve that problem: Delete windows now and
> don't go back. You don't learn to swim by standing in the wading
> pool, after all. Most guys I know, myself included, learned to swim
> by being pushed off the pier at a Scout camp in my early teen years.
> I'm a pretty strong swimmer now.
>
> It worked again for me in 1997 when I switched to Debian. You think
> Debian's a bit off-setting to newbies now, you should go back five
> years. Before apt!
>
> > Fine, maybe you and your *good* e-mail client can handle the volume
> > on this list, but what about me and my *Windoze-average/crappy*
> > e-mail client?
>
> You make it sound like we should be spending our time catering to the
> weakest link (bad software) instead of working towards the goal of
> getting the people who are ready for it over to a better alternative.
>
> > _________ Maguire@AnalyticInvestments.com ________ |**===
> > / |**===
> > ( W. B. Maguire II, Ph.D. Tel: 303.772.1615 |=====
> > | Chief Executive Manager FAX: 303.651.6389 9||
> > | Analytic Investments LLC _ |
> > | 700 Ken Pratt Blvd STE204 PMB166 ( ) The ASCII ribbon |
> > ( Longmont CO 80501-6455 X campaign against )
> > \__________________________________ / \ _ HTML e-mail __/
>
> As bad as HTML email is, arguably, warlording is worse. There's a
> chance HTML email has content, massive sigblocks are content-free.
>
> http://ursine.ca/jargon/html/W/warlording.html
>
> --
> .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>
> : :' :
> `. `'` proud Debian admin and user
> `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
>
>
> --
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- Previous message: Monique Y. Herman: "Re: Debian with dual PIII 500"
- In reply to: Paul Johnson: "Re: Debain on the rise ! - However ...."
- Next in thread: Dave's List Addy: "Re: Debian on the rise ! - However ...."
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