Re: locale errors
From: Chris Metzler (cmetzler_at_speakeasy.net)
Date: 03/26/04
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:02:39 -0500 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:42:01 -0500
Ashley Graham <ph33rful@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Try "dpkg-reconfigure locales" as root. If the locales package is not
>> installed, type "apt-get install locales". Please use the archive at
>> <http://groups.google.com> (Group linux.debian.user) or
>> <http://liste.debian.org> first next time. This question has been asked
>> and answered more then once.
>
>
> What question hasn't been asked and answered more than once? What
> question is new anymore?
I see new questions here all the time -- or at least, questions asked so infrequently as to be new to me. If that weren't the case, it's hard for
me to imagine that I'd stay subscribed. I like learning this stuff, and
I like helping others. But I have lots of things to do as it is, and it'd
be pretty hard for me to rationalize sticking around if I wasn't learning
much, and if the only people I was helping were people who weren't that
interested in helping themselves.
> Have you tried looking up info through google lately?
>
> A quick look-up with the search string "locale settings" returns nothing
> that would help me; it does offer attempts to stear me in the right
> direction, but I probably would have made other problems in trying to
> fix my one.
When you get an error message, it's usually a good idea to search on
the text of the error message itself. In this case, I did a google search
of lists.debian.org, on the string "Setting locale failed", and got lots
of responses that looked helpful. See below.
> With regards to it being asked previously; they may have asked it
> differently, they may not have thought it out, and asked it like I did,
> there are a number of ways of asking any given problem, if I didn't word
> it like they did, it would be like shouting into the darkness (like most
> search attempts).
Or they may have asked the same question as you did, and received the
same answer (or possibly even better ones, with more info). Without
looking, there's no way to tell.
> I understand that the "noise" and/or extra bandwidth that I used in
> sending/receiving comments with this message might have been burdensome
> to the server(s), and possibly you, but I received the answer quicker,
> and more presice to my dilemma, then if I had gone through google.
>
> Who's to say what questions are allowed to be answered/asked? Should
> they all go through you first; deleting the ones you feel are exotic
> enough to actually spend time answering?
The first clause you wrote above is probably intended to be sarcastic --
implying that your one message cannot really have been much of a burden
to the list or the respondant. But, as the saying goes, no single
raindrop believes itself responsible for the flood. The users of useful
technical fora routinely make an effort to discourage redundant questions
for the simple reason that they want the fora to *remain useful*. And
your second clause -- that you got the answer faster from the list than
you would if you'd looked for it yourself -- illustrates another reason
this subject strikes a nerve with people: why should volunteers commit
their limited energy to helping people who don't seem willing to help
themselves? Why not put it towards people who *are*?
And feel free to point out the part of his post where he indicated that
soem questions aren't "allowed" to be answered or asked.
> Secondly, the possible ways of explaining a problem are far from small,
> I could have typed away dozens of attempts in google, and still not
> gotten an answer. But I did here; in about five minutes.
I'm glad. At the same time, though, you were kinda lucky.
This list gets way, way, WAY more traffic than most of its subscribers
can possibly keep up with. Consequently, most people here filter fairly
ruthlessly. Using me as an example, I look at the subject lines and throw
out all the posts that don't look like I'm likely to either have something
useful to say, or be interested. Of the remainder, if they're asking a
question, I look to see how much effort they've already put into it
themselves. If there's no sign that they've put in very much, I move on.
There are too many posts here from people that *are* willing to put that
effort in that I might respond to; why would I not give the time to them,
and instead spend the time on someone who *isn't*?
Sometimes, I'll throw this link at them instead:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
A number of other people here, people who've been here a lot longer than
I have, do the same thing. If you search for that link in the archives
of this list, you'll get hundreds, if not thousands, of responses. If you
haven't looked at it before, I *strongly* encourage you to do so. To you,
my replying to someone's question with that link may seem rude. To me,
though, it's the exact opposite: I'm telling that person "if you follow
this guide, you'll be much much much more likely to get help." A far
colder response, IMHO, is to just ignore the post and say nothing. I see
lots of poorly-posed questions here that get just such a response -- none
-- from pretty much everyone, no doubt leaving the original poster
wondering why no one helped him/her.
> I did search google, but all I recieved as replies were how to change my
> locale settings, which I didn't want to do, I needed to generate the
> ones I already had defined.
Your specific question was "how do I fix this:", with a quote of the
perl warning. That specific question has been asked here lots. If
that wasn't the question you really wanted to ask -- if your question
instead was "I know how to change my locale settings; but how do I
gen locales I've defined?" -- then that's what you needed to have
typed. Again, you might want to look at the link above. Writing a
good question is a skill one can easily develop that not only makes
life a lot easier for those who might help you (and thus, makes people
more willing and enthusiastic to help you), but also is directly
educational (as I think Monique posted in another thread, it's often
the case that working on how to pose the question can make the answer
come to you). Yeah, this may take more time than just posting a
quick query. But you'll be more likely to get an answer when you do,
and less likely to seem lazy, and thus not make it past lots of
people's filters.
> And I know me, as a relative idiot in the Linux/GNU world, snapping at
> you, and possibly offending you as well as others is wrong, and probably
> in very bad taste. But I couldn't let you try to tell me what I can and
> cannot post.
Oh please. Nobody's telling you what you can and cannot post. With the
possible exception of the listmaster, it's impossible for anyone here to
do that (well, and have it stick).
What was done was tell you what you could do that would make your
questions more likely to get an answer from someone. You're certainly
free to ignore that; you're free to ignore everything I'm saying as well.
> If you can show me five posts where this exact question has been
> answered previously. I'll shut up about this, praise you, and apologize
> for wasting bandwidth/etc.
Why does the number need to be 5? If one can trivially get the answer
to a question, without giving other users who are volunteering their
time to answer questions *more questions to answer that could have
trivially been answered by the questioner*, that's all that matters.
That said, here's a few times in just the last two months that this
subject has come up (using the search described above):
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/debian-user-200401/msg02387.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/debian-user-200401/msg02866.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/debian-user-200401/msg04474.htm
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/debian-user-200402/msg05236.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/debian-user-200403/msg00002.html
As far as the number 5 goes . . .it took me 5 minutes to do this search.
> I apologize now for being a giant, swarthy, uncouth, american.
On this subject (asking questions that one could have found the answer
to oneself), the offenders are broadly distributed through the world's
nations.
-c
-- Chris Metzler cmetzler@speakeasy.snip-me.net (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear
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- Previous message: Andreas Janssen: "Re: Locale requirements for GnuCash"
- In reply to: Ashley Graham: "Re: locale errors"
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