Re: Re: Deploring *nix Philosophy

From: Parameshwara Bhat (
Date: 06/08/04

  • Next message: Parameshwara Bhat: "Re : Re: Deploring *nix Philosophy ( Was Re : Splitting archives across floppies )"
    Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:59:43 +0530
    To: Daniel Stonier <>

    On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 04:36:52 +1000, Daniel Stonier
    <> wrote:

    > On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 07:33:42 +0530, Parameshwara Bhat <>
    > wrote:
    >> Hello Mr. Erik & Mr.Robin,
    > Your points are valid (except perhaps for the internet connection),
    > the simple, oft used things should be simple to do. However, most
    > of this fedora already does - I find it odd that you are having the
    > problems you do.
    > I missed most of your earlier notes so I might be a little off
    > target, but my default user and any new users I add are all given
    > permission to unmount and mount the cdrom. No problems here. Using
    > automount -
    > you dont always want to mount a cdrom as a filesystem, so it keeps things
    > simple and leaves it there as an option I suspect. Automount is much more
    > useful for things like network shares where you want to slip in and out
    > unobtrusively without leaving it mounted for extended periods of time
    > (automount will automatically unmount something if you haven't used it
    > for
    > <x> period of time).
    I am hacking Automount / Autofs taking cue from a guide in web, I am
    really enjoying it. My blues over using CD / floppy seem to be over. They
    neither get locked because not unmounting.

    > Neither is sound I think a problem for 99% of users in general
    > (I've never had an issue with it).
    > Been a while since I've tried to set up a dial-in modem connection. I'm
    > not sure how kppp does things, but the service I ran does need you
    > to start the daemon as root (internet interface being a security thing
    > this
    > is the responsible option), but once it was started (which could be done
    > at bootup so you dont need to manually need root to do it all the time),
    > you could set it so users could open and close the ppp interface at will.
    > I did, I think have the same fustration trying to use kppp initially. You
    > might find redhat-config-network (or neat, a sym link to the same thing)
    > a much easier option. Users can then use neat-control to turn the
    > interface
    > on and off without needing root password. I initially used this to set
    > up my cable modem internet interface and then users can turn the
    > interface
    > on or off with neat-control. Most of the redhat-config- gui's are fairly
    > sensibly designed for a new user to set up basic devices fairly easily.
    > Most of these things are fairly simple things to get a handle on by
    > playing around with and remembering not to stonewall yourself by
    > refusing to allow yourself to think differently. You also
    > have to remember redhat's gui's have only recently been attempting to
    > accommodate the user market, so 10 years experience really only comes
    > down to two or so years of establishing an interface - so dont be
    > too critical on them. And also remember they are often just the
    > packager - most of the programs need be written by volunteers in
    > the open source community. Documentation within the system could be much
    > better - but the linux desktop is changing so fast its very difficult
    > for documentation to keep up. To make up for this you might want to
    > initially invest in a fedora bible of sorts. I haven't used one of these
    > for a while, but I found them useful to get started with, although
    > I did notice the redhat 9 one was fairly shallow and all about
    > pointing and clicking things rather than explaining concepts a
    > great deal. If you get to the stage where you want to do anything
    > fairly complicated though, you'll need to look elsewhere for info.
    > And then there's the philosophy of the user - should the fedora root user
    > (administrator) be tolerated to be as computer illiterate as most of the
    > windows computer world is (is it a bad thing for us to expect that
    > a fedora root user become a little more computer educated?) Does this
    > bring the complexity or power of the OS down to the level of a windows
    > machine along with all its problems? I have no idea :) Though I'm not
    > sure that bringing Linux down to the level of windows home setup just to
    > appeal to
    > the masses is such a wonderful situation. I already find myself losing
    > control
    > in gnome and kde thanks to configuration designs that are there to make
    > the system
    > 'easier' to use (this is not necessarily detrimental though! Alot of
    > users I think appreciate the controls the desktops take over). Thankfully
    > there is enough variety in linux to provide alternative desktops
    > which suit my style.
    > Just an odd note, I seem to see alot of people jump in and try Fedora
    > because
    > they're unhappy with windows, but then get frustrated when they find
    > things dont work as they did in windows. Rather ironic.

    No,this one deosn't belong to that. I love my freedom too much.

    And, I believe those who have worked their way hard into the heart of
    Linux might have to reconcile to theidea that Linux should need only a
    normal intelligent person, not a computer expert, to install, configure
    and maintain at home for home use . If Linux can focus and target at this
    segment additional to it's high end uses. it will truly conquer the world.


    P Bhat
    > Regards,
    > Daniel.


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