Re: Re: Deploring *nix Philosophy
From: Parameshwara Bhat (pbhat_at_ongc.net)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:59:43 +0530 To: Daniel Stonier <firstname.lastname@example.org>
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 04:36:52 +1000, Daniel Stonier
> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 07:33:42 +0530, Parameshwara Bhat <email@example.com>
>> Hello Mr. Erik & Mr.Robin,
> Your points are valid (except perhaps for the internet connection),
> the simple, oft used things should be simple to do. However, most
> of this fedora already does - I find it odd that you are having the
> problems you do.
> I missed most of your earlier notes so I might be a little off
> target, but my default user and any new users I add are all given
> permission to unmount and mount the cdrom. No problems here. Using
> automount -
> you dont always want to mount a cdrom as a filesystem, so it keeps things
> simple and leaves it there as an option I suspect. Automount is much more
> useful for things like network shares where you want to slip in and out
> unobtrusively without leaving it mounted for extended periods of time
> (automount will automatically unmount something if you haven't used it
> <x> period of time).
I am hacking Automount / Autofs taking cue from a guide in web, I am
really enjoying it. My blues over using CD / floppy seem to be over. They
neither get locked because not unmounting.
> Neither is sound I think a problem for 99% of users in general
> (I've never had an issue with it).
> Been a while since I've tried to set up a dial-in modem connection. I'm
> not sure how kppp does things, but the service I ran does need you
> to start the daemon as root (internet interface being a security thing
> is the responsible option), but once it was started (which could be done
> at bootup so you dont need to manually need root to do it all the time),
> you could set it so users could open and close the ppp interface at will.
> I did, I think have the same fustration trying to use kppp initially. You
> might find redhat-config-network (or neat, a sym link to the same thing)
> a much easier option. Users can then use neat-control to turn the
> on and off without needing root password. I initially used this to set
> up my cable modem internet interface and then users can turn the
> on or off with neat-control. Most of the redhat-config- gui's are fairly
> sensibly designed for a new user to set up basic devices fairly easily.
> Most of these things are fairly simple things to get a handle on by
> playing around with and remembering not to stonewall yourself by
> refusing to allow yourself to think differently. You also
> have to remember redhat's gui's have only recently been attempting to
> accommodate the user market, so 10 years experience really only comes
> down to two or so years of establishing an interface - so dont be
> too critical on them. And also remember they are often just the
> packager - most of the programs need be written by volunteers in
> the open source community. Documentation within the system could be much
> better - but the linux desktop is changing so fast its very difficult
> for documentation to keep up. To make up for this you might want to
> initially invest in a fedora bible of sorts. I haven't used one of these
> for a while, but I found them useful to get started with, although
> I did notice the redhat 9 one was fairly shallow and all about
> pointing and clicking things rather than explaining concepts a
> great deal. If you get to the stage where you want to do anything
> fairly complicated though, you'll need to look elsewhere for info.
> And then there's the philosophy of the user - should the fedora root user
> (administrator) be tolerated to be as computer illiterate as most of the
> windows computer world is (is it a bad thing for us to expect that
> a fedora root user become a little more computer educated?) Does this
> bring the complexity or power of the OS down to the level of a windows
> machine along with all its problems? I have no idea :) Though I'm not
> sure that bringing Linux down to the level of windows home setup just to
> appeal to
> the masses is such a wonderful situation. I already find myself losing
> in gnome and kde thanks to configuration designs that are there to make
> the system
> 'easier' to use (this is not necessarily detrimental though! Alot of
> users I think appreciate the controls the desktops take over). Thankfully
> there is enough variety in linux to provide alternative desktops
> which suit my style.
> Just an odd note, I seem to see alot of people jump in and try Fedora
> they're unhappy with windows, but then get frustrated when they find
> things dont work as they did in windows. Rather ironic.
No,this one deosn't belong to that. I love my freedom too much.
And, I believe those who have worked their way hard into the heart of
Linux might have to reconcile to theidea that Linux should need only a
normal intelligent person, not a computer expert, to install, configure
and maintain at home for home use . If Linux can focus and target at this
segment additional to it's high end uses. it will truly conquer the world.
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