Re: ATTN SELF-STYLED LIST POLICE (was RE: Mr. Day)

From: Wolfgang Gill (wolfgang_at_rpi.net.au)
Date: 12/07/04

  • Next message: Edward: "Re: ATTN SELF-STYLED LIST POLICE (was RE: Mr. Day)" 
    To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@redhat.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:03:54 +1000

    On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:37:08 -0600, Thomas Cameron wrote
    > On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 10:42 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
    > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Shaffer Paul wrote:
    > >
    > > > Fedora's supporters (frequent repliers to these posts) rightfully
    > > > view the lesser mortals here with skepticism and disdain because
    > > > they are who they are and nobody is getting paid. Fair enough.
    > >
    > > no, not fair. and not accurate. if you go back and read some of
    > > those threads again, you'll find that newbies are not chastised simply
    > > for being newbies. they're chastised for bad behaviour.
    >
    > No, they're publicly derided for being innocently ignorant of some
    > archaic set of "rules" which are not really rules - just suggested best
    > practice. And that's just plain wrong. That is *not* the open
    > community behavior I fell in love with when I first started using Linux.
    >
    > > some examples are (god help me, i'm almost scared to type them in)
    > > posting in HTML, and top posting.
    >
    > I am so freaking sick of this BULL*** about posting HTML and top
    > posting. It would amuse me if it didn't downright disgust me that
    > the ones who scream the loudest about this crap are the ones who in
    > the next message will bust on some poor newbie for not using the
    > latest version of package X. Guess what - if your MUA doesn't
    > handle HTML, then SWITCH FREAKING MUAs!!!! It is the 21st century,
    > for Chrissakes! If you *CHOOSE* to use an MUA that doesn't handle
    > HTML, I don't wanna hear you bitch about it! It's YOUR choice,
    > freaking live with it. Pine works great with HTML, as does Mutt
    > with *minimal* fiddling. Oh, and so does Evolution, and Thunderbird,
    > and so on. I can't think of ANY modern mail reader that doesn't
    > handle HTML. If you *CHOOSE* to be some ascetic Ubergeek monk and
    > use a text only MUA that doesn't handle HTML, then you are a dope.
    > And if I hear another whine about "I pay for my bandwidth and HTML
    > uses more of it" I'm going to puke. If you can't deal with the fact
    > that new list members are GOING to make mistakes, then maybe this
    > isn't the right list for you. I mean, come ON!!! The WHOLE list
    > for the month of November was a whopping 14 megs.
    >
    > And since about, oh, my SECOND YEAR OF GRAMMAR SCHOOL I've been able
    > to read a letter out of order. GET OVER IT, people! Use your freaking
    > brain for once instead of going off on some poor newbie who doesn't know
    > any better. All you do when you flame some poor neophyte is alienate
    > him/her and make the REST OF US look bad. Let me repeat that - when
    > you flame someone, they think of "those jerks on the Fedora list,"
    > not "that jerk Joe Blow on the Fedora list." Like it or not, you
    > represent the Fedora community, and I do not appreciate you
    > representing my community like an ***.
    >
    > > when newbies do either of these (as
    > > they are wont to do, not surprisingly), they are typically (and
    > > politely) asked not to do it again. and that's it. they apologize
    > > sometimes, they fix their mailers, they change their behaviour, and
    > > everyone gets back to work. end of problem.
    >
    > So what is your excuse then for being such a jerk? There was not
    > only nothing polite in your posting, but you were an out and out
    > ass. Twice. The saddest thing about your behavior is that you seem
    > proud of it! I can't imagine that you would speak to someone like
    > that face-to-face. If you would treat a stranger like that face-to-
    > face, I feel really sorry for you.
    >
    > > sadly, there is the occasional (i can't think of any other way to
    > > describe them) self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who takes umbrage with
    > > these rules of etiquette and initiates his own personal crusade to
    > > defend either of the above.
    >
    > Sadly, there is the occasional self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who
    > elects himself "list police" who attempts to make himself look
    > somehow better by publicly chewing out newbies, making the whole
    > Fedora community look bad.
    >
    > > with disastrous results, of course,
    > > leading to the periodic flame war only because *one* *person* thinks
    > > he knows better than everyone who's been a regular for years. go back
    > > and check in the archives -- tell me i'm wrong.
    >
    > You're wrong. I've been in the IT industry for a decade. While I know
    > there are many on this list who look at me as still wet behind the
    > ears, I've been around for long enough to have seen all this crap
    > over and over and over and over and over and over (have I mentioned
    > over and over?) on list after list and newsgroup after newsgroup.
    >
    > When I was younger and less sure of myself, I admit that I tried to play
    > the cool "old-timer" and did the list police thing myself. Now that
    > I have (I hope) a modicum of maturity and experience, I realize that
    > there are so many more important things that top/bottom/HTML posts
    > that I just roll on by that crap.
    >
    > > posters here don't get flamed for being newbies or "lesser mortals".
    > > they get flamed because they have no sense of courtesy, etiquette or
    > > history.
    >
    > Bull***. Posters get flamed here by people who are trying to make
    > themselves look like something more than they are. Posters here get
    > flamed for innocent ignorance.
    >
    > If you don't like something that some newbie does, educate him
    > instead of publicly humiliating him. If top/HTML posting bugs you
    > that much, then hey, the delete key works really well (and you
    > should probably switch to decaf). Just don't use it as an excuse to
    > try to puff yourself up as some sort of wizened old-timer who speaks
    > The Truth.
    >
    > It's not that hard, people - use the same courtesy here that you
    > would in a business meeting. Grow up, be civil. There are enough
    > people out there being nasty to each other - we don't need it in here.
    >
    > If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.
    >
    > Thomas

    Amen to that - I couldn't of said it better myslf. Now let's get back to Linux
    shall we.

    Wolf 

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