Re: ATTN SELF-STYLED LIST POLICE (was RE: Mr. Day)

From: Michael W. Carney (michael.es.carney_at_sbcglobal.net)
Date: 12/07/04

  • Next message: Gene Heskett: "Re: ATTN SELF-STYLED LIST POLICE (was RE: Mr. Day)" 
    Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:49:31 -0800
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@redhat.com>

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    Thomas Cameron wrote:
    | On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 10:42 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
    |
    |>On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Shaffer Paul wrote:
    |>
    |>
    |>>Fedora's supporters (frequent repliers to these posts) rightfully
    |>>view the lesser mortals here with skepticism and disdain because
    |>>they are who they are and nobody is getting paid. Fair enough.
    |>
    |>no, not fair. and not accurate. if you go back and read some of
    |>those threads again, you'll find that newbies are not chastised simply
    |>for being newbies. they're chastised for bad behaviour.
    |
    |
    | No, they're publicly derided for being innocently ignorant of some
    | archaic set of "rules" which are not really rules - just suggested best
    | practice. And that's just plain wrong. That is *not* the open
    | community behavior I fell in love with when I first started using Linux.
    |
    |
    |>some examples are (god help me, i'm almost scared to type them in)
    |>posting in HTML, and top posting.
    |
    |
    | I am so freaking sick of this BULL*** about posting HTML and top
    | posting. It would amuse me if it didn't downright disgust me that the
    | ones who scream the loudest about this crap are the ones who in the next
    | message will bust on some poor newbie for not using the latest version
    | of package X. Guess what - if your MUA doesn't handle HTML, then SWITCH
    | FREAKING MUAs!!!! It is the 21st century, for Chrissakes! If you
    | *CHOOSE* to use an MUA that doesn't handle HTML, I don't wanna hear you
    | bitch about it! It's YOUR choice, freaking live with it. Pine works
    | great with HTML, as does Mutt with *minimal* fiddling. Oh, and so does
    | Evolution, and Thunderbird, and so on. I can't think of ANY modern mail
    | reader that doesn't handle HTML. If you *CHOOSE* to be some ascetic
    | Ubergeek monk and use a text only MUA that doesn't handle HTML, then you
    | are a dope. And if I hear another whine about "I pay for my bandwidth
    | and HTML uses more of it" I'm going to puke. If you can't deal with the
    | fact that new list members are GOING to make mistakes, then maybe this
    | isn't the right list for you. I mean, come ON!!! The WHOLE list for
    | the month of November was a whopping 14 megs.
    |
    | And since about, oh, my SECOND YEAR OF GRAMMAR SCHOOL I've been able to
    | read a letter out of order. GET OVER IT, people! Use your freaking
    | brain for once instead of going off on some poor newbie who doesn't know
    | any better. All you do when you flame some poor neophyte is alienate
    | him/her and make the REST OF US look bad. Let me repeat that - when you
    | flame someone, they think of "those jerks on the Fedora list," not "that
    | jerk Joe Blow on the Fedora list." Like it or not, you represent the
    | Fedora community, and I do not appreciate you representing my community
    | like an ***.
    |
    |
    |>when newbies do either of these (as
    |>they are wont to do, not surprisingly), they are typically (and
    |>politely) asked not to do it again. and that's it. they apologize
    |>sometimes, they fix their mailers, they change their behaviour, and
    |>everyone gets back to work. end of problem.
    |
    |
    | So what is your excuse then for being such a jerk? There was not only
    | nothing polite in your posting, but you were an out and out ass. Twice.
    | The saddest thing about your behavior is that you seem proud of it! I
    | can't imagine that you would speak to someone like that face-to-face.
    | If you would treat a stranger like that face-to-face, I feel really
    | sorry for you.
    |
    |
    |>sadly, there is the occasional (i can't think of any other way to
    |>describe them) self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who takes umbrage with
    |>these rules of etiquette and initiates his own personal crusade to
    |>defend either of the above.
    |
    |
    | Sadly, there is the occasional self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who elects
    | himself "list police" who attempts to make himself look somehow better
    | by publicly chewing out newbies, making the whole Fedora community look
    | bad.
    |
    |
    |>with disastrous results, of course,
    |>leading to the periodic flame war only because *one* *person* thinks
    |>he knows better than everyone who's been a regular for years. go back
    |>and check in the archives -- tell me i'm wrong.
    |
    |
    | You're wrong. I've been in the IT industry for a decade. While I know
    | there are many on this list who look at me as still wet behind the ears,
    | I've been around for long enough to have seen all this crap over and
    | over and over and over and over and over (have I mentioned over and
    | over?) on list after list and newsgroup after newsgroup.
    |
    | When I was younger and less sure of myself, I admit that I tried to play
    | the cool "old-timer" and did the list police thing myself. Now that I
    | have (I hope) a modicum of maturity and experience, I realize that there
    | are so many more important things that top/bottom/HTML posts that I just
    | roll on by that crap.
    |
    |
    |>posters here don't get flamed for being newbies or "lesser mortals".
    |>they get flamed because they have no sense of courtesy, etiquette or
    |>history.
    |
    |
    | Bull***. Posters get flamed here by people who are trying to make
    | themselves look like something more than they are. Posters here get
    | flamed for innocent ignorance.
    |
    | If you don't like something that some newbie does, educate him instead
    | of publicly humiliating him. If top/HTML posting bugs you that much,
    | then hey, the delete key works really well (and you should probably
    | switch to decaf). Just don't use it as an excuse to try to puff
    | yourself up as some sort of wizened old-timer who speaks The Truth.
    |
    | It's not that hard, people - use the same courtesy here that you would
    | in a business meeting. Grow up, be civil. There are enough people out
    | there being nasty to each other - we don't need it in here.
    |
    | If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.
    |
    | Thomas
    |

    Thomas,

    I couldn't have stated how I feel about this topic any better myself.

    Thanks! :^)

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