Re: Hard drive cable question -

On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 18:06 +1030, Tim wrote:
Wolfgang Gill wrote:
Nope it doesn't matter. Drive selects are done with jumpers on the
drive. All IDE 40/80 pin cables are straight through, so the drive
itself govens whether it's master or slave. When I only have one
drive, I use the middle connector, and hide the other one out of the
way, to give me better casing air flow.

Tim:
That is just so much misleading, not to mention outright wrong,
information. Kindly stop leading people down the garden path.


Wolfgang Gill:
Misleading?? That wasn't misleading at all!! And I'M NOT leading people up the
garden path.

It's completely wrong to say that all IDE 40 or 80 wire cables are wired
straight through. THEY ARE NOT! Repeat after me, they are NOT *all*
wired straight through. And if anything, the *majority* are not.

On any (40 or 80) that're cable-select, one wire is disconnected from
one plug, and the same pin is grounded on another. That's not "straight
through" wiring.

On any that're 80-wire, only 40 of the wires can be "straight through",
40 don't connect to anything other than one plug, and there's two that
might be connected as above (most 80-wire cables are cable-select, I
won't go as far as to say that all of them are.


I never said no such thing that ALL 40/80 pin IDE cables are straight
through. You can´t get them off the shelf unless you specifically ask
for them. Since they are the cheapest to manufacture, they will be the
most likely that people will come across.

So, now, tell me how that equates to being wired "straight through"?

Hint: Don't argue with an electronics engineer about basic wiring.


More like an Electronics Engineer arguing with another Electronics engineer.
(25 years in electronics/computers)

I've build literally 10,000 of machines (Probably more, lost count
after the first 1000 or so). And only 1% have failed due to hardware
faults, and cabling wasn't one of them. It's NO use to explain things
into GREAT detail to people that have little understanding of the
concepts as it is, and confuse them even more.

It's a very bad, VERY BAD, idea to outright lie to people. Do not tell
false people information as if it were fact. Over-simplifying things to
the point that they are wrong is misleading. The people who take you at
face value later have to unlearn all the bad information that they found
out, which is a difficult thing to do.


If one is hiding parts of cables out of the way, one should be
careful how it's done. Kinking or mangling cables can produce
problems. If you're *never* going to use the extra length, I'd
suggest just cutting it off.

Now that's the part that's misleading.. "Cut it off if you don't need it",
that's a REALLY, SMART thing to say to people that barely understand this
concept at all. (**Shakes Head**)

If you know how transmission lines work, and bear in mind the
frequencies involved, taking excess cable and rolling it up, folding it
up, bundling it under drives, etc., can lead to all sorts of problems.

I repeat, if you're NEVER going to use the excess, it's fine to cut it
off. Doing so will do NO harm to the signalling, and can remove a
plethora of weird problems that people may encounter due to stuffing
cables into any spare space.

I take comments that "I've built thousands with no problems" with a
grain of salt. How many PCs get problems that the builder will never
hear about? Lots. How many problems go undiagnosed? Lots. How many
people magically fix their systems by fiddling with the cables? Lots.


Usually (Depending on brand of drive), the master drive is jumpered,
and the slave drive isn't.

I wouldn't agree with that at all, I see no consistency.

You obviously haven't dealt with different number of different brands of drives
in the same system. IF you did, you'd know all about it..

I have. You've obviously dealt with too few.

I've seen drives which need no jumper for master, one jumper for it, two
jumpers for it (depending on whether it was single or with a slave).
I've seen slaves with one jumper, no jumper, and so on. I couldn't go
around giving some assertion that it's more common for masters to be
jumpered and slaves to be not, because I don't see that sort of
consistency anywhere, and it's a useless thing to rely on. It's just
encouraging people to make ill-considered assumptions about drives by
quickly glancing at the back instead of checking out the jumpering
that's actually needed by the drive.


I never said anything along those lines either. And you don´t have to
explain it to me, I´ve been there done that. And it seems that we both
overlooked the fact that the original poster, was using a cable select
cable. As drives jumpered as master/slave don´t function when two drives
are connected to the cable.

¨;doesn't seem to care which data cable connector is attached to it, but
when I put in the second drive, jumpered as "slave" the computer won't
boot.¨

Enough said from me, I hate this damned arguing crap..


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