Re: Hard drive cable question -

On Thursday 23 February 2006 06:19, Wolfgang wrote:
On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 18:06 +1030, Tim wrote:
Wolfgang Gill wrote:
Nope it doesn't matter. Drive selects are done with jumpers on
the drive. All IDE 40/80 pin cables are straight through, so the
drive itself govens whether it's master or slave. When I only
have one drive, I use the middle connector, and hide the other
one out of the way, to give me better casing air flow.

Tim:
That is just so much misleading, not to mention outright wrong,
information. Kindly stop leading people down the garden path.

Wolfgang Gill:
Misleading?? That wasn't misleading at all!! And I'M NOT leading
people up the garden path.

It's completely wrong to say that all IDE 40 or 80 wire cables are
wired straight through. THEY ARE NOT! Repeat after me, they are
NOT *all* wired straight through. And if anything, the *majority*
are not.

On any (40 or 80) that're cable-select, one wire is disconnected
from one plug, and the same pin is grounded on another. That's not
"straight through" wiring.

On any that're 80-wire, only 40 of the wires can be "straight
through", 40 don't connect to anything other than one plug, and
there's two that might be connected as above (most 80-wire cables
are cable-select, I won't go as far as to say that all of them are.

I never said no such thing that ALL 40/80 pin IDE cables are straight
through. You can´t get them off the shelf unless you specifically ask
for them. Since they are the cheapest to manufacture, they will be the
most likely that people will come across.

So, now, tell me how that equates to being wired "straight through"?

Hint: Don't argue with an electronics engineer about basic wiring.

Why not if he's possibly miss-informed?

More like an Electronics Engineer arguing with another Electronics
engineer. (25 years in electronics/computers)

Now you are asking for it, I can more than double that to 55. But since
I have also learned that I don't know everything, I'm more than willing
to take 'corrections'.

To quote an ex motherinlaw who despite her lack of formal education,
occasionally had a way with words, and one of her favorites was that so
and so could paint a sign and then stand there and argue with it.
You've done rather precisely that in this thread.

I've build literally 10,000 of machines (Probably more, lost count
after the first 1000 or so). And only 1% have failed due to
hardware faults, and cabling wasn't one of them. It's NO use to
explain things into GREAT detail to people that have little
understanding of the concepts as it is, and confuse them even
more.

It's a very bad, VERY BAD, idea to outright lie to people. Do not
tell false people information as if it were fact. Over-simplifying
things to the point that they are wrong is misleading. The people
who take you at face value later have to unlearn all the bad
information that they found out, which is a difficult thing to do.

If one is hiding parts of cables out of the way, one should be
careful how it's done. Kinking or mangling cables can produce
problems. If you're *never* going to use the extra length, I'd
suggest just cutting it off.

Now that's the part that's misleading.. "Cut it off if you don't
need it", that's a REALLY, SMART thing to say to people that
barely understand this concept at all. (**Shakes Head**)

If you know how transmission lines work, and bear in mind the
frequencies involved, taking excess cable and rolling it up, folding
it up, bundling it under drives, etc., can lead to all sorts of
problems.

I repeat, if you're NEVER going to use the excess, it's fine to cut
it off. Doing so will do NO harm to the signalling, and can remove
a plethora of weird problems that people may encounter due to
stuffing cables into any spare space.

I take comments that "I've built thousands with no problems" with a
grain of salt. How many PCs get problems that the builder will
never hear about? Lots. How many problems go undiagnosed? Lots.
How many people magically fix their systems by fiddling with the
cables? Lots.

Usually (Depending on brand of drive), the master drive is
jumpered, and the slave drive isn't.

I wouldn't agree with that at all, I see no consistency.

You obviously haven't dealt with different number of different
brands of drives in the same system. IF you did, you'd know all
about it..

I have. You've obviously dealt with too few.

I've seen drives which need no jumper for master, one jumper for it,
two jumpers for it (depending on whether it was single or with a
slave). I've seen slaves with one jumper, no jumper, and so on. I
couldn't go around giving some assertion that it's more common for
masters to be jumpered and slaves to be not, because I don't see
that sort of consistency anywhere, and it's a useless thing to rely
on. It's just encouraging people to make ill-considered assumptions
about drives by quickly glancing at the back instead of checking out
the jumpering that's actually needed by the drive.

I never said anything along those lines either. And you don´t have to
explain it to me, I´ve been there done that. And it seems that we both
overlooked the fact that the original poster, was using a cable select
cable. As drives jumpered as master/slave don´t function when two
drives are connected to the cable.

¨;doesn't seem to care which data cable connector is attached to it,
but when I put in the second drive, jumpered as "slave" the computer
won't boot.¨

Enough said from me, I hate this damned arguing crap..

Thats why I apologized, and until now exited this thread.

--
Cheers, Gene
People having trouble with vz bouncing email to me should add the word
'online' between the 'verizon', and the dot which bypasses vz's
stupid bounce rules. I do use spamassassin too. :-)
Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above
message by Gene Heskett are:
Copyright 2006 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved.

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hard drive cable question -
    ... All IDE 40/80 pin cables are straight through, ... itself govens whether it's master or slave. ... It's completely wrong to say that all IDE 40 or 80 wire cables are wired ... I've seen drives which need no jumper for master, one jumper for it, two ...
    (Fedora)
  • Re: new to this group: problems with drives
    ... The nonred line cable goes to the existing master. ... We have been working on jumpers and drives trying to add an existing ... thanks for the great suggestion about disconnecting CD, changed jumper to CD ... Want to hook CD back up to its original cables, ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)
  • Re: Hard drive cable question -
    ... All IDE 40/80 pin cables are straight through, ... itself govens whether it's master or slave. ... It's completely wrong to say that all IDE 40 or 80 wire cables are wired ... I've seen drives which need no jumper for master, one jumper for it, two ...
    (Fedora)
  • Re: Fedora vs. Ubuntu (hijacked: can I dual boot FC and Kubuntu?)
    ... situations where drives were jumpered inconsistently, one CS and the other M ... other thing I've encountered is drives jumpered CS but non-CS cables. ... I jumper both drives CS. ... encountering mis-configured systems, but the nature of that was drives being ...
    (Fedora)
  • Re: Company network slowdown
    ... Cables hanging from the overhead were standard. ... >tower because the automagic VSWR meter relay had failed to start the ... >transportable between different drives and error rate was very low. ... I avoided UHF connectors and right angle adapters. ...
    (alt.internet.wireless)