RE: Commentary on the seven words

Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes; I was just trying to help; I'm
sure some people will disagree, but it's generally a better security
practice not to use clear text protocols such as telnet or ftp whenever
possible, which why I recommend sftp and ssh...

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:redhat-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marc Wiatrowski
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:23 PM
To: 'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'
Subject: RE: Commentary on the seven words

When someone going down a dead end road stops and asks for
directions, do you explain the correct route or help him
make a new road the way he is headed?

marc

-----Original Message-----
From: darrel barton
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:11 PM
To: redhat-list@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Commentary on the seven words


As a programmer, I routinely turn to guru's for support --
especially for
operating system and utility advice and assistance and there
are SEVEN
words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to
time that
drive me up the wall. Not George Carlin's 7 words but another set:

Why Do You Want To Do That?

I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone here, because
I know that
almost everyone means well and help, whether it's what we
intend or not --
is still help. But there is a danger too. When someone
writes to say

200 PORT command successful. Consider using PASV. Hangs.

and the response he gets is "try sftp" there seem to be a
hugely missing
ingredient: All we did was give the man a work around to a
problem. Even
if there are 400 alternatives ... FTP is SUPPOSED to work and someone
should CARE that it doesn't. Well, sftp helped him and he's
on his way
and that's great. The only problem is that, in this case,
'sftp' was
merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't
careful, Linux will
become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say
nothing more
that a PILE of workarounds.

I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process
(like Tar,
Cpio, DD, etc) to create archives larger than that same
system can read
back. Think of it as that elusive Write Only Memory we're all heard
about. Several people contacted me and told me all about
Gzip and how to
make the archive smaller and other people said it wasn't
Linux' fault it
was the file's fault and etc., etc., and etc. I wonder if
these same
people would be so forgiving of a workaround if the problem
was that Linux
would allow a process to write to disc blocks in excess of
the number of
physical blocks without reporting errors?

There is a guy that wants to be able to log in to ROOT via Telnet and
people write back telling him that he doesn't want to even do
that. Well
guess what? I administrate one system that has 128 clients
on it and it's
NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET. Or .. Intranet. One
server, 128
thin clients. Why can't I log on to Root from one of those
clients if I
want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh
provides? (OK -- I know that YOU have never ever EVER had a
problem with
ssh. Nor anyone you've ever known. And every ssh client you
have ever
seen works seamlessly with every ssh server that's ever been
written .. but
trust me, out there ... once ... back in 1986 .. there WAS a
guy who had
ssh problems.

So when a guy writes to ask about how to enable root login
from telnet,
can't someone just say "I hope you know that's not as secure
as ssh -- but
here's how you enable that ...... ?

Please just remember that some of us here have been slogging
through this
stuff for the last 20 years, trying to get an application to run, a
documented operating system function to actually function -- and
occasionally get enough things working that a client actually PAYS
us. We're not always here to hear about the way we coulda, shoulda,
woulda restructured the whole process around stuff that some
of you guys
only invented last week, ok?

"Why Do You Want To Do That?"

Would be a more fair question if someone needed that answer
in order to
better understand the request -- but far too often it's not
that -- it's
the beginning of someone telling me how THEY think I should
be doing my job.

So please, folks, the next time we want to do something
differently that
you think you'd do it if you were in our shoes ... cut us
some slack and
just help us out, OK? We'd do the same for you.











--
redhat-list mailing list
unsubscribe mailto:redhat-list-request@xxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list



Confidentiality Notice:
The information contained in this electronic message is intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity named above and may contain privileged or confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that dissemination, distribution or copying of this information is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and destroy the copies you received.


--
redhat-list mailing list
unsubscribe mailto:redhat-list-request@xxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list

Relevant Pages

  • RE: Commentary on the seven words
    ... When I was an operating systems programmer we all too often forgot that the Operating system existed to support the application, not the other way around. ... A Because the application that we run uses a telnet client that doesn't support ssh - and that's why I can't run ssh on this system. ... I administrate one system that has 128 clients on it and it's ...
    (RedHat)
  • RE: Commentary on the seven words
    ... I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process (like Tar, ... I administrate one system that has 128 clients ... Why can't I log on to Root from one of those ... want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh ...
    (RedHat)
  • Commentary on the seven words
    ... I routinely turn to guru's for support -- especially for operating system and utility advice and assistance and there are SEVEN words -- seven very unwelcome words that I hear from time to time that drive me up the wall. ... The only problem is that, in this case, 'sftp' was merely a workaround to a problem and if people aren't careful, Linux will become wat the original AT&T Unix was -- and that is to say nothing more that a PILE of workarounds. ... I administrate one system that has 128 clients on it and it's NOT EVEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET. ... Why can't I log on to Root from one of those clients if I want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh provides? ...
    (RedHat)
  • RE: Commentary on the seven words
    ... for operating system and utility advice and assistance and there are ... I wrote in with a complaint that Linux will allow a process (like Tar, ... thin clients. ... want to without the 262 additional levels of complication that ssh ...
    (RedHat)
  • Re: SCOs investors want it to stop work on software products!
    ... >continue to run an operating system (unless you're simply a hobbyist, ... many more Linux clients than SCO and that's been true for some time now. ... Many of the SCO clients also run Linux systems, ...
    (comp.unix.sco.misc)