RE: RE: RHCE and other certs?



I should also have added that anyone who is say, applying for a Redhat admin job, will generally (At least i hope) have the knowledge necessary to perform redhat specific things, regardless of certification.)



---

Terry Zink
RHCE
Logicworks
________________________________________
From: redhat-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [redhat-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Terry Zink [tzink@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 1:08 PM
To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
Subject: RE: RHCE and other certs?

Angie,

I should point out that while you have a CS degree but do not know how to check the Red Hat dependencies, this is due to your lack of experience in that area.

True, someone who obtains an RHCE obviously understands the basics, but do they have the logic skills and abilities needed to do more than what a book tells them to do? While I do not have a CS degree myself, I have some decent experience with linux and as such I feel it enhances the knowledge I have with my certification.

Based on my experience, I have met plenty of people with certifications that simply were not able to cope with anything other than exactly what the book tells them to do. They were not able to research things properly, or troubleshoot properly because they failed at the basic logic behind it. Many certs do not teach you to think the way you need to think. GENERALLY successfully completing a CS degree at least exposes you to it and in many cases is required for you to complete it.

So while a cert will guarantee your new hire may have the basic competency to complete what he needs, work experience and a CS degree demonstrate that he has the abilities to adapt and expand. (Generally. We both know there are exceptions to every rule.)

Certs can only help, I have never seen them hurt, but Dave is right. However, let us be reminded that the average CS degree is also becoming worth less due to the fact that many universities and colleges are skipping out on things.

Experience trumps a cert. A cert backs up your experience. A CS degree or any technical degree really generally will demonstrate specific things. A cert backs that up. Having just a cert but no experience / real training will not help you, as there are plenty of people who just have a cert and no real skill. Cert books/classes teach what is needed to pass the test. Very few certs are true mastery certs.

Excuse the poorly written post, as no matter how much coffee I pump into my system today, it's not helping. :P

Morale of the story is you are both right.

-tz


---

Terry Zink
RHCE
Logicworks
________________________________________
From: redhat-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [redhat-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Angie Moore [diabeticithink@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:21 AM
To: 'General Red Hat Linux discussion list'
Subject: RE: RHCE and other certs?

<< Look at who wrote 'cut' and 'paste' for Linux. >>

EXACTLY my point. I have a CS degree, and yet, I did not know how to check
Red Hat service dependencies, (like Solaris has). If I had bothered becoming
a Linux engineer and obtaining a CERT, I would have learned that. I only
hold a CISSP, MCSE & PM, so my expertise are in those fields.

Of course, I'm not a Red Hat engineer. I'm the owner and hire all the Red
Hat engineers (22 total on payroll).

All of my most successful engineers have certs and so far none have a CS
degree.

It's great that you have "30 years experience" and I would suggest
furthering your career by obtaining certifications.

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: redhat-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:redhat-list-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Dave Ihnat
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:06 AM
To: General Red Hat Linux discussion list
Subject: Re: RHCE and other certs?

On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:50:10AM -0400, Angie Moore wrote:
WOW, that was the most negative and downright untrue assessment I have
ever had the displeasure of reading.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THAT GARBAGE THAT "Dave" WROTE.

Well, that's the joy of the business world--you're getting opinions from two
opposite camps. Both, apparently, own their own companies, and both are the
kind of people you'll have to face when seeking a job.

I won't call "Angie" names or denigrate her opinion. But I will say that
I've been in this field for 30 years, a consultant for most of them at
places ranging from Bell Labs, Rockwell, Honeywell, World Book Discovery,
etc. on down to startups. Look at who wrote 'cut' and 'paste' for Linux.

So while she may not think much of my opinions, I will state that they're at
least as valid as what she's spouting.

One thing you should notice that we both agreed on is that real problem
solving is a major and key underlying thread. The ability to reliably and
accurately assess a situation and logically analyze how to resolve it trumps
any memorized list of answers.

Cheers,
--
Dave Ihnat
President, DMINET Consulting, Inc.
dihnat@xxxxxxxxxx
773/550.0929

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