Re: [SLE] SuSE support
From: James Mohr (suse_mailing_list_at_jimmo.com)
To: firstname.lastname@example.org Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:28:35 +0100
On Wednesday 12 January 2005 11:50, Kevin Donnelly wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 Jan 2005 08:15, James Mohr wrote:
> > However, I am
> > talking about a case where I cannot even get the software installed. Note
> > software for which I paid money. Suse 9.0 works. Suse 9.2 doesn't.
> > Formatting as an ext2fs works, an ext3fs doesn't (nor does reiser).
> > Something support has not addressed.
> Yes, but what you're asking for in effect is a guarantee that you can
> install SUSE without problems on any machine of your choosing.
Maybe you should get a different mailer. Your's seems to be mixing message
from one person to another.
I never said anything of the sort. I expect (demand?) that support reads the
case history and provide suggestions based on the case history and not on two
words that happen to appear in the fifth email. When I tell them the only way
to even boot the install CD and start the installation is to use
"Installation - Safe Settings" and they tell me "why don't you try
'Installation - Safe Settings'", I get annoyed. They are not reading the case
history. This is what a professional support organization does. If after
reading the case history, which was obviously not done, they say "sorry we
cannot support every HW combination", then I have to accept it (and I will).
> The free
> support can't do that - they can provide best efforts to try and answer
> your questions, but even then there may just be something about your
> machine that they've never come across, and couldn't sort out without a
> large expenditure of effort. The word is "support" (ie help) - there's no
> guarantees about it.
You mean along the lines of "please try the things you told us you are already
doing." That's "best effort", right?
> You can always do that, as I said. I doubt if SUSE considers it a waste of
> their time to try and keep paying customers happy, but in the real world,
> resource decisions have to be made. Suppose, for instance, sorting out an
> obscure problem for one person took so much time that the simpler queries
> of 5 other people get ignored? What's best there?
However, it is unprofessional to keep me hanging on for weeks wasting my
"resources" if they have already made the decision that 5 other people should
get professional support, but I shouldn't. They can tell me, they have no
solution and it seems to HW related (which is probably is). I don't have a
problem with that.
> From what you said above, you *can* get it installed with ext2, but not
> with a journalling filesystem. Maybe there's something about your setup
> (hard disk controller?) that doesn't like such filesystems insofar as they
> are implemented in 9.2 (even if 9.0 was OK). Or maybe some kernel or other
> parameter change has caused this. Either way, it is not necessarily simple
> to track down. If Support haven't come across it before, there may
> actually be no answer as yet. That doesn't mean that the concept of
> support is itself invalid.
OK, were are dealing with email number 7 here (several weeks) and this kind of
thing has been going on since the beginning. It wasn't until recently that I
decided to try something else out of sheer frustration. Trying it with ext2
was not support's idea.
In the problem description I said the only way to even start the installed was
booting with "Safe Settings". In those 7 emails so far:
- No. 2 told me to run a program which was not available from the installation
CD and they said I could "login" after that. I asked if they were working on
the same problem, because I was not having trouble logging in.
- No. 3 asked me if running the non-existant program made a difference. I
asked how could it, when the program does not exist? They were "confused" as
to where I was in the installation. (didn't read the history, huh?)
- No. 4 finally had a useful suggestion (although it did not help
- No 6 Told me to use "ide=nodma" which is part of the "Safe Settings".
Haven't read the history, yet, it seems.
I say "I reboot and try to have the system format the drive this time with
ext2. At first it seems to hang, but eventually it starts installing the
system and I complete the first CD. Yippee!
However, I do not want ext2, I want either ext3 or reiser, so I reboot to do
the installation again. This time I try to format it from YAST with ext3. It
hangs again. "
They respond "This is not supported and attempted at your own risk, however
you can convert from ext2 to ext3."
What is not supported? Formating with ext3? The reponse "Sorry, my wording was
perhaps not perfect."
Granted, No. 7 has some useful suggestions, which I have not tried yet.
> As regards "how does Linux differ from Windows?", I think that even if
> installation and support were zero in both OSs, the question is easily
> answered in Linux' favour.
Not necessarily, if you are just talking about free install support, which is
what this is all about.
> The key point is that in a community effort in
> a field where new technology is being introduced every 6 months, there will
> be glitches, and frustrating ones. They will get fixed, but not
> necessarily on a timescale that suits our immediate needs.
I never said anything different. However, even if I go someplace like
McDonald's, the food should not be cold. I am not paying for a seven course
menu, but there are certain thing you can expect. For support, one of which
is to read the case history, which they weren't doing. Thus, they were
wasting everyone's time.
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