Re: [SLE] Strategy for Online-Updates

From: Joachim Schrod (jschrod_at_acm.org)
Date: 10/29/05

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    Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:48:45 +0200
To: suse-linux-e@suse.com

    Marcus Meissner wrote:

    Thanks for your answer. But it shows that my question was not formulated good
    enough. (Maybe I shouldn't write emails as late as 4am... :-)
    >
    > For the rest you need to understand that YOU only provides updates in regards
    > to bug or security fixes. They only come from the official YOU SUSE Servers.
    >
    > Additional package sources are different and explained on opensuse.org like
    > you found.

    I know the technology. That's why I asked for the _strategy_.
    I.e., I don't want to know how I _do_ updates, but I want to know about
    experiences how others _approach_ the _task_ of updates.
    Process, not procedures.
    The preposition is that additional package repositories are used. (I don't think
    one has to discuss this at length, two words suffice: MP3 and DVD.)

    What do other people use? YOU? apt? How about smart?
    What are their experiences? Does it just work? Where are the pitfalls?
    E.g.,
      -- If they use apt4rpm repositories, are all security updates also
         in those apt repositories?
      -- If they use apt, is apticron available? I haven't seen a package for it.
      -- Do they use two different update processes, one for SUSE packages and
         one for others? If they use two processes, how do they handle conflicts?
      -- Do SUSE package repositories hold _all_ necessary updates; also for the
         commercial packages that are only on the retail DVD?
         If no, where do I get updates for them?

    But since you write:

    > Start YOU. Press "Automatic Download of Patches" Button. Follow Dialog.
    >
    > If there is need you can do your own cron jobs with "online_update" command
    > line tool. See man online_update.

    some comments on online_update. First,

        # man online_update
        No manual entry for online_update

    A man page would be nice. Perhaps you might want to open an internal ticket that
    one gets written... ;-)

    For information, one has to fall back on online_update -h. And that doesn't
    explain that there seems to be three modes: `download or apply patches' with -g
    and -i, `show patches' with -s and -d, and `check updates' with -q and -k. The
    differences between those modes are slightly unclear, in particular between the
    first and the second. After all, -s downloads and applies patches as well.

    As I wrote, I don't want to apply patches automatically, since I want to know
    when I have to restart applications. I.e., I want an email that I shall install
    patches and another command to do so. I have to say that your explanation
    doesn't supply a solution for this demand.

    yast installs a cron job with online_update -g -P. Fine, but that doesn't output
    that there are patches to apply. I.e., no email is sent. The patches are
    downloaded, but that's all. Frankly, without notification online_update -g is
    worthless -- it's nice that the patch is downloaded, but no admin action is
    triggered. This is not a supported update process.

    In the past, I used online_update -s -d | grep INSTALL. That's because I want
    the email _only_ when I have to do something and not every day. It would be nice
    if online_update would have an explicit and supported method to supply such an
    you-have-to-do-something email, like apticron in Debian has. The command above
    has the risk that INSTALL lines are not the only ones that I want to look at.
    When I'm switching to 10.0 now, I have to investigate first the output of
    online_update -s -d and see if it hasn't changed. And that's bad, quite honestly
    -- in Debian I don't have to do such work myself.

    Just some thoughts for improving the SUSE-technology of online updates. :-)
    I am using SUSE since 5.1 (I'm a paying subscriber), and I think it's said that
    the update technology still has its sharp corners that hurt users and where
    better solutions exist in other distributions.

    Cheers,
            Joachim 

    --
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Joachim Schrod				Email: jschrod@acm.org
Roedermark, Germany
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