Re: [SLE] ...and speaking of SuSE / Novell...

From: Curtis Rey (crey_at_san.rr.com)
Date: 11/14/05

  • Next message: Charles philip Chan: "Re: [SLE] SUSE 9.3 - Printing driver Epson Stylus Photo 870" 
    To: suse-linux-e@suse.com
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:10:23 -0800

    On Sun November 13 2005 09:53, Anders Johansson wrote:
    > On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 10:20 -0800, Curtis Rey wrote:
    > > As will I. The plan would be something like this. Back up all data to
    > > disc/DVD. Wipe all hard discs. Install and config new fork/branch.
    > > Subscribed to new distro mailing lists. Unsubscribe from all Novell/SuSE
    > > mailing lists. Never utter the word Novell again if humanly possible.
    >
    > KDE will not be dropped, please stop these useless threads, it is WRONG!
    >
    > But even if KDE were dropped, don't you think this is just a wee bit of
    > an exaggerated reaction?
    >
    > Curtis, whatever it is you're smoking, you should know that it's most
    > likely only allowed on medical grounds

    Dear Anders. My sentiments are deftly echoed by Mr Rosenberg's post, about 6
    posts down the thread.

            "It's now wrong because people freaked right the hell out and they had
            to surcome to the pressure from their userbase."

    Firstly, I do realize the press release focused on their enterprise products
    (e.g. SLES), but it bodes to a larger shift in the internal infrastructure
    that's happening at Novell. Furthermore, to quote Ben again:

            "Why would we have chosen SUSE in the first place if not for how they do
                     things?"

    Why would I stay with SuSE if it morphs so far away from what originally
    attracted me to the distro in the first place? The bottom line for me is two
    fold. The primary reason I chose SuSE was because the way the product was
    put together, from the kernel up to the desktop. Secondly, the other thing
    that attracted me to SuSE was it's community. If the community is
    effectively cut out of the picture in deference to the corporate paradigms, I
    have to wonder what's next. It's not just a shift from GNOME to KDE - though
    this is an essential part of many's dismay, it an overwhelming sense of SuSE
    being essentially gutted of what makes it... well SuSE. The other thing that
    I found disturbing was Mr Mantel's resignation, one that strongly hints at
    the larger internal strife that is happening within the corporate ranks at
    Novell.

    The bottom line is this. As GNOME was secondary to KDE previously, KDE is
    apparently slated to fall to the type of piece meal devel that I've seen with
    GNOME in previous SuSE releases. Hence, KDE operations will become spotty
    and inferior simply because resources formerly used to develop it will no
    longer be available. Pair this with my observation that GNOME's user
    interface is often obtuse, and in some ways arcane, doesn't fill me with
    confidence.

    There's a reason why many of the desktop users on this list use SuSE. One is
    becuase of the core development team and the other because of the GUI devel.
    Now we see a major shift in this facet of the OS and many feel that this will
    essentially cause them untold difficulties - akin to learning the OS all over
    again in some respects.

    So, if my reaction seems exaggerated it is because many of us fear the
    inevitable is occurring. This goes back to the previous power struggle and
    bad blood between the KDE and GNOME devel teams. I'm sure there are quite a
    few reasons that Novell took the initial decision regarding the GUI of
    choice. However, I can't escape my gut feeling that this is also a vailed
    vendetta that's being played out.

    Novell bought Ximian and KDE came with the SuSE acquisition. In otherwords
    someone probably feels that this is round two (or three) for the ongoing
    KDE/GNOME conflict. One a more personal note, I can't escape the impression
    that someone high up in the GNOME/Ximian team convinced those at Novell that
    the best use of the Ximian purchase would be to emulate RH and therein place
    GNOME resources and development priorities above that of KDE. Novell didn't
    put out a fair sum of cash for KDE, but they did for Ximian. Given the
    latest shake-up at Novell and the ensuing lay offs there are only so many
    resources available and this was most likely an opportune time to make
    political moves to supplant KDE's dominance over GNOME. I could be dead
    wrong - but that's what my gut tells me.

    Lastly, my confidence in Novell's decision process is not strengthened, given
    their prior history. They have made a bonehead or two in the past. Not to
    mention that the former executives that were formerly at the helm at Novell
    are now the upper echelon at.... You guessed it - THE CANOPY GROUP - and
    what a fun lot they are. This hints at a mono-culture, and there's another
    software maker that has that dubious honor as well - and many on this list
    are using Linux specifically to avoid said software maker.

    If my fears are justified (one way or the other), I see GNOME becoming more
    mature and congent - at least to some extent. But I feel the majority of
    users on the SuSE list chose SuSE because of, not only the core kernel work,
    but for the desktop development that focused on KDE. Gnome was second string
    for a reason. If Gnome becomes the overt focus of resource management and
    development then what's going to happen to KDE? As I previously stated, it
    will fall to second string and likewise suffer due to poor resources and
    support. At that point, along with core changes to the original devel team
    (that IMHO makes SuSE - SuSE) what's the point? There are plenty of other
    distros out there to chose from - and frankly I would have no hesitation
    switching over to a distro that made the shrewd move of hiring Mr Mantel -
    he's is one of the essential factors that made SuSE what it is today and will
    likely do the same with another Linux maker - whom ever they may be.

    Cheers, Curtis
      

    -- 
Spammers Beware: Tresspassers will be shot,
survivors will be shot again!
Warning:  Individuals throwing objects at 
the crocodiles will be asked to retrieve 
them!

  • Next message: Charles philip Chan: "Re: [SLE] SUSE 9.3 - Printing driver Epson Stylus Photo 870"

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