Re: [SLE] ...and speaking of SuSE / Novell...

From: Ken Schneider (suse-list_at_bout-tyme.net)
Date: 11/17/05

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    To: suse-linux-e@suse.com
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:41:20 -0500

    On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 11:03 -0800, Ben Rosenberg wrote:
    > On 11/17/05, Ken Schneider <suse-list@bout-tyme.net> wrote:
    > >
    > > On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 19:46 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:
    > > > On 11/17/05, Peter Van Lone <petervl@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > >
    > >
    > > I don't have a problem with noobs putting a GUI on a server, I have a
    > > > problem with experienced admins running a GUI on a server. (I did not
    > > > mean to offend noobs, sorry)
    > >
    > > Then why offend experienced admins that use a GUI to admin a machine?
    > > Not all configs are easily handled via the CLI and there are fewer
    > > possibilities of making errors using a well written GUI that uses syntax
    > > checking. I happen to use and like using webmin for doing a lot of my
    > > admin work, not all but enough. Actually makes it easier to admin
    > > postfix.
    >
    >
    >
    > Well, I never said I had issue with new users putting X on their servers or
    > using things like YaST to admin their machines.. it was not what I was
    > saying with the email I sent. What I had taken offense to was the same ole
    > same ole crap of saying Linux was hard because people had to actually learn
    > the methodology of UNIX/Linux. It really irks me when recent converts come
    > onto this list and start talking the same ole tired bull*** about how Linux
    > should change to fit their needs.. if Windows suited their needs then they
    > wouldn't be looking elsewhere. They obviously had to learn Windows, Netware
    > or whatever at some point so they shouldn't complain that they have to read
    > HowTo's or something like the Linux Bible to get going. This is complicated
    > stuff because it can be anything the user wants it to be... and if they can
    > find a GUI config tool to get their work done.. more power to them. I use
    > Postfix Enabler on my Powerbook because it makes setting up Postfix so easy
    > a monkey could do it.
    >
    > Again, my objection to earlier emails wasn't the use of a UI but the dissing
    > of Linux because it is not Windows and the complaint that they might have to
    > RTFM or ask someone how to do something that they could do in 30 minutes
    > under Windows because they had years of experience using Windows. One
    > doesn't just walk into a room and start talking *** about the host and
    > other guests .. being humble and willing to do a bit of leg work is
    > respectable.. saying that everyone in the room should immediately take up
    > their way of thinking just because they've appeared on the scene is total
    > crap.
    >
    > Note: Ken, I'm not talking about you but about the lazy bastards who can't /
    > won't learn the methodology of UNIX/Linux without doing the "Linux won't
    > take up market share until it's more like Windows." .. we're not here to
    > make sure Linux gets market share... we're hear to make sure those who come
    > seeking help.. are well.. helped. But this doesn't mean we have to kowtow to
    > every recent convert who sends a subscribe email. ;D
    >
    > -Ben
    Agree whole heartily, you use the best tool for the job at hand whether
    it be CLI or GUI. 

    -- 
Ken Schneider
UNIX  since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE  since 1998
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