Re: Update management too confusing - was: Re: [opensuse] openSUSE 11.0 automatic update applet - does it stop running after updating?
- From: "Rajko M." <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 02:20:33 -0500
Hi Curtis,
On Friday 15 August 2008 02:31:16 am Curtis Rey wrote:
I was complaining of the same thing and all I get is canned answers. The
package management system is not only confusing it's very kludgy IMHO.
(but then again, I still miss the original yast1).
There was many times question by developers, what users prefer, asking for
proposals how to organize YaST user interface, and there were some
discussions, and some proposals:
http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Development/New_Control_Center
so something was done. Also if you search http://lists.opensuse.org you will
find large threads with very confusing messages for developers.
Not only is this a confusing package system - I'm still confused as to
actually how many different "package management" programs there are (yum,
smart, etc,,,).
Much more if you count other package formats than RPM.
Though with 11.0 seem to be whitled down to just libzypp,
zypper, and PackageKit.
That's for openSUSE, only, and Kevin explained that in his answer.
Ironically, the SuSE updater program is tied to
kde4 (not kde3 as before)
I use kde3 most of the time, moving some stuff to kde4, but I can't say it is
tied to one of them. I use different user accounts for each, running KDE4 as
parallel session to KDE3. I have to manually turn off one of the instances of
openSUSE updater to prevent race/colision, as they work on the same
underlaying system. So, they are updater is not tied to any desktop.
and my experience with kde4 has been less than
pleasant -
I can believe that. It was jerky on occasions, but if you take KDE4 for what
it is, a platform in development, than unpleasant surprises can be expected.
Now at version 4.1 it is in much better shape than few months ago, with a lot
of functionality from KDE3 ported to KDE4, but it is not replacement, yet.
this may explain why the update applet just cycles through check
for updates,...
The fact that you used it with KDE4 doesn't explain anything.
it checks for updates, informs you of them, ask for root
password and upon receiving the root password, proceeds to check updates
again - and round and round we go.... never really installs anything
though (kinda defeats the purpose of an update applet?)
Did you check what is installed and is it up to date with YaST or 'zypper if
<package_name> . Question on this list can help you find solution. Without
details it can be bad package, bad metadata, bug in software. The described
is mostly cured by using YaST Online Update tool that is more sophisticated
than applet.
I wish when they would have had a backup so people could revert to
something more stable... Oh well, I not a corporation or client - so
Novell likely could care less.... pity really.
Pity is to accuse based on wrong, or missing information, or misinterpretation
of reality.
First, what kind of backup or reverting to more stable we are taliking about.
At the package level rollback exists for years. In YaST select update and
select version, than package will be updated or rolled back, depends what
version you selected. Those that want to rollback software to previous
working version and miss to click on version tab don't exist. Problem is just
word update, but even than rolling trough options what one can do with
package and trying to provoke change leaves only this as option.
The backup tools are present, so telling that some 'they' should have backup
is shifting responsibility, from users that have to create backup, as they
are the only people that know what to backup, to developers that still don't
use crystal ball to guess what one would want to remember, ie. backup.
To find backup tools is as complicated as to open YaST Software Management and
type word backup in a search field to see the offer?
On the other hand you can't push down the throat of every user solution that
is asking him to learn how to use backup software. Not many will be happy
with system asking for bunch of DVDs to make backup, and hard disk is not
real solution.
The general option to provide, as one of YaST modules, tool to roll back
harmful changes was discussed on development mail lists, but even Novell
can't develop all at once. There have to be set priorities.
--
Regards, Rajko
http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands.
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- References:
- Update management too confusing - was: Re: [opensuse] openSUSE 11.0 automatic update applet - does it stop running after updating?
- From: Michael Roberts
- Re: Update management too confusing - was: Re: [opensuse] openSUSE 11.0 automatic update applet - does it stop running after updating?
- From: Curtis Rey
- Update management too confusing - was: Re: [opensuse] openSUSE 11.0 automatic update applet - does it stop running after updating?
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