Re: Breezy Badger - Ubuntu Kubuntu mix

Bjørn Ingmar Berg wrote:
I wrote:

At login I can chose wether I want to start Gnome or KDE and both work
very well. Even so I'm not completely satisfied. The problem is that
in the menues in Gnome I now have lots of KDE-applications, and in KDE
I have lots of Gnome-applications.


On 03/04/06, Antony Gelberg <antony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This is really quite a normal thing. Many users wish to run Gnome or
KDE, but use apps from the other. If a Gnome user wants to run k3b,
should it be left off the menu? It just doesn't make sense (to me) to
limit the user in that way.


Of course it doesn't make sense. If that is what you wish for.
That is why I mentioned it's understandable that this happens.

Me again:

But now -in hindsight- I wish Gnome had kept itself
Gnome-only and KDE had ended up KDE-only.


On 03/04/06, Antony Gelberg <antony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Why?


Because I would have liked to keep Gnome as it was without the
added KDE-apps. Because I would have liked to see how the default
KDE setup was without the added Gnome-apps.
Because (just as you point out that some users would like to add apps
from the other GUI) I would have liked to keep them separate.
Because the reason for my stunt wasn't to add heaps of apps that
compliment and/or duplicate eachother, it was to look at and compare
Ubuntu and Kubuntu in their "out-of-the-box" states.
Simply because that was what _I_ wanted.

On 03/04/06, Antony Gelberg <antony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Why not just leave as is? What if she likes KDE and rhythmbox? The
fact that Gnome and KDE both come with a set of apps should be seen as a
bonus for those that want to use those apps (and a downer for those that
don't ;).


The concrete "she" in question just about knew her way around windoze.
She has enough getting used to her new GUI without the added complexity
of having several apps that can perform the same task. First I'll teach her
Linux and KDE or Gnome, then I'll start showing her the verastility of Linux
and the pletora of applications to chose from.
First crawl, then walk. Or in other words, I don't want to make her learning
curve steeper than it has to be.

If that's the case, then for my money Gnome is much simpler and cleaner, and KDE is confusing and garish.

On 03/04/06, Antony Gelberg <antony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

It's funny, in my short time here it's amazing to see how people view
Ubuntu as a monolithic entity, in a way that I've never seen in other
distros. Or Ubuntu and Kubuntu as such different entities. They're
just a kernel, apt, and some other packages. :)


Please don't "talk down" to me. And if that wasn't your intention I'm
afraid that is how you come across in this paragraph.
I have worked with IT and user support since 1985. I have worked with
more than 20 different OSes, counting various flavours of Windows as
one. Now I am in the process of learning Linux in general and (K)Ubuntu
in particular.

Please don't accuse me of talking down to you. I'm sure you are experienced enough to see that I was merely commenting on the different vibe of some Ubuntu users compared to any Linux users I've come into contact with.

I value the variety of applications and richness of choice we have, just
as you seem to do. I believe that for my own use I'll end up with a mix
of various apps.

Nonetheless I'd like to look at and compare Ubuntu and Kubuntu in
their "out-of-the-box" states, and the best way to do that for me would
be to have them "side by side" in the same computer.

If you have the disk space and motivation, a side-by-side install might be good. In fact here's an idea that beats creating disk partitions. Why not return your Ubuntu install to the default, or re-install if it's a new box and you think it would be quicker than purging packages. Then create a chroot and install Kubuntu into that with debootstrap. Voila, two separate installs. With not much work you could have Ubuntu on Alt-F7 and Kubuntu on Alt-F8. They would share a kernel but big deal.

People have
put lots of work and energy into making the selections of software in
these two flavours of the distro. They must have had their reasons.
And I'd like to see them set up and running as the people behind this
planned. Without various additional apps. This will for example help me
give a qualified answer if someone asks me if I recommend Ubuntu or
Kubuntu for them.

I think it is a good idea to keep things simple and uncomplicated for
new users. One and only one application for each task. I think it is
smart for new users to get to grips with a simple and straightforward
system, like a default Kubuntu or Ubuntu. Variety and choice can
come later, when they're ready for it.

I do not consider Ubuntu nor Kubuntu to be monolithic entities. I see
no problem with mixing Gnome- and KDE-apps, and do not consider
it wrong. Even so I would like a way to keep them separate, when
THAT is the way I happen to want it. As Linux is all about choice I
personally think it should be valid to chose that variant as well.

I asked in what I hope was a polite way for help with a certain task that
I wanted to perform. The response "why do you want to do that?" can
have a certain merit from a philosophical point of view. Unfortunately it
wasn't very helpful for me, as I want to get something done; not discuss
the philosophy behind it.

You're often going to get discussion on a mailing list.

If I was in any way rude in saying I want to keep Ubuntu and Kubuntu
separate in my computer, I apologise in any way possible.

You weren't and I never said or implied you were.

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