Re: [OT] Debian mailinglists [was: RE: Debian or Ubuntu?]

Bart Silverstrim wrote:

My point was that anyone who has ever had to edit a complicated MS
server with its GUI tool knows why CLIs are better suited for that task,
at least for knowledgeable server admins, which frankly anyone should be
who admins a valuable server.
Those who have had to manager 100 servers with GUI tools know even
better.

I don't have 100 servers, but I have had a fair number of systems to
configure and quite frankly I find a mix to be most appropriate. The
command line is slick and fast (as long as I've already learned about
and know what I am doing). But it gets *unwieldy* when I have a two or
three line set of commands because of long paths or redirects, for
example.

But after you have done it once, you can just recall that command and
edit it into ssh commands to your other machines, paste it into shell
windows running remotely, or paste it into a text file or script for the
next time you need to do it.

It is a lot easier for me to (again, just an example) have a
graphical interface where I can set options and let it rip with a task.

If there's more than a couple, they always end up hidden behind tabs you
can't see with no way to script a repeatable operation.

I have had tasks that are easier with a few typed commands. I've had
some where it's just easier for me to work with a tree of objects. Ever
try navigating the Windows registry by command line? Painful, with some
hive and key names.

But if you have that path in a text file, it becomes a cut/paste

Graphically, it's a cinch, plus easier to compare
two or more keys.

How is anything easier to compare than what diff will do to text files
or a directory of them?

I still stand by the statement that so far the argument is GUI tools
just suck, just use it and you'll know why; this doesn't say what the
problem is.

One problem is that GUI's don't have a way to repeat multiple
operations. Or if they do, their programming language in no way
resembles their interactive language, where with the command line and
shell, a script is exactly the same as the interactive command plus you
have some consistent tools for loops and substitutions if you want them.

The other is that the safety checks you expect from the GUI are only
possible for things where there are a known number of choices.

This is reflecting a personal matter of style and/or taste,
not a definitive reason. There are volumes on human/computer interaction
out there that embody research on computer interfaces, so while some
express a preference by the simple "it just sucks", it is possible to
define the reasoning.

Tools always suck when they don't do what you want. If a GUI happens to
have defaults that work for you, you only have one or a few machines to
repeat the operations on, and the programmer thought of all the choices
you need, you might like it. But those things may all be different for
someone else using that same GUI.

The statements made reflect just the current
generation of tools and your preferences without actually giving a
non-subjective reason.

Preferences are subjective...

--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx


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