Re: Programming Languages / IDEs

bmearns wrote:
If you're looking for things like drag and drop GUIs with pre-built
controls, I doesn't sound to me like you're really interested in
programming, just creating toy applications. Not to be too elitist,
but if you're going to call yourself a "programmer" (I don't know if
you're planning to, but if you are), you have to move way beyond this
click-and-build apps.

As far as C++ and how nothing is defined for you: that is true to a
large extent, but having to define what happens for input? I'm not
sure what you mean by that but search for cin for scanf. There's also
a ton of free and high quality libraries available online for use with
C++ for everything from regular expressions to GUIs to network

Interesting point of view. Toy applications is a bit unfair the main program I use in my work is written in Foxpro (It is terrible but not because of the language but that is because it is badly designed. Badly designed because the people telling the programmer what to do do not know what they are doing) .

I think that the end result is what is important. I am not an IT professional by trade. I think (though I am not sure) that you have to program on a daily basis to be able to get the most out of a low level language like C. Of course it would be nice if you could do this all in C if prepackaged controls and then later expand to the more complex low level stuff.

I believe there are four things most users need to be able to get the the most out of your computer.

Word processor
Programming language. (Visual Foxpro filled the last two for me.)

(Probably should add browser/mail/newsgroup client to the list these days.)

I don't see what is wrong with painting a screen using a form designer most of the user interface items are pretty standard (Checkboxes Radioboxes Textboxes Grids etc.) The gain in productivity I think is worth the sacrifice.

The aim of COBOL was that an ordinary person would be able to write an application to help them do their job. I have written several programs
in Visual Foxpro Visual Basic and VBA that have made my life a lot easier. I understand my job and with a bit of programming I am able to get the answers that I need.

As I originally suggested Java, I'll point out that there is a
significant amount of extra functionality included in the Java
standard libraries compared to what's available in a bare bones C++
environment, and there are also a plethora of libraries available free
for download to incorporate still more functionality into your code.

I think that learning from books is not ideal. I think that the choice of C, C++, Java will be chosen by what I have available at the technical colleges in my local area.

If you still want more, python is released with the motto "batteries
included", and they've got built in packages for near everything you
can imagine. But as I mentioned before, I don't feel like python is a
good place to start learning programming, mostly just because the
syntax and some of the concepts are significantly different from the
major application development languages like C++ and Java.

I do wonder about python, perl and ruby do they allow you use variable with out declaring them.

Laslty, if you do want to use an IDE (though I still recommend against
it, at least to start), eclipse is a very powerful and very versatile
one. I've only used it for Java development, but as I understand it,
it can now be used for anything. It's free (as in beer)

>Hmmmmm Beer

and open source, I believe.

Thanks for the tip