Re: Versions and Updates
From: Ruel Smith (NoWay_at_NoWhere.com)
Date: 06/22/04
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:43:33 -0400
B Gruff wrote:
> Very much a newbie question.
> Can somebody just explain to me the logic behind Versions and Updates,
> please?
Hey, you have to learn somehow... :o)
> For instance, I have SuSE 9.1.
> That included a given version of both Linux and apps, so that I have a
> version of the kernel, a version of KDE, a version of KNode, a
> version of Thunderbird, etc, which came with it.
>
> When I do an Online Update, what am I doing?
> Are those versions staying the same or not?
> If they are changing, then I can't see why I would ever need (for
> example) to go to SuSE 9.2, 9.3. 10.0 etc., because I'd already be
> there, so they must stay the same!
YaST Online Update (YOU from hereforth) only updates bug fixes, security
fixes, and errata. It is necessary to run YOU to plug any security holes
found, get minor bug fixes, and so forth. However, it will NOT upgrade
anything to the latest version. That means, when Kernel 2.6.10 is released,
SuSE won't upgrade it via YOU for you. The same goes for KDE, Gnome, or any
other application/suite, even though SuSE does provide the latest KDE and
Gnome packages on their website.
SuSE's stance is basically that you pay to buy a new release to get the
latest software. That gives them funding, and it gives you quality,
SuSE-built/compiled applications. Linux is in a continual state of
evolution, and if SuSE just updated everything for you to the latest
versions, you'd never need to buy a new distro. There has to be a revenue
model for them to continue existence. I, personally, have no gripe about
that. I get a new distro every 6 months just to support them. I could get
by upgrading once every 2 or 3 years, but I want to support my favorite,
and well used distro.
However, there is a solution to all of this, but it requires a little work
on your part. The solution is to install and configure apt4rpm:
http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/
You're required to install lua from another website:
http://rpmseek.com/rpm-pl/lua.html?hl=com&cs=lua:PN:0:0:0:0
Once you've installed all 3 rpms, you need to configure your sources file
in /etc/apt/sources.list. Basically, it's a copy/paste thing from one
available on their website, but you must edit it to take out any sources
you don't want, like any of them that end with 'unstable'. Also, if you
plan to upgrade your kernel, there is another file you must copy/paste a
little script into to update LILO for you so that you can boot after the
upgrade. Otherwise, you should delete 'kernel-of-the-day' from your sources
file (honestly, unless a newere kernel will do something for you, there's
no reason to upgrade it). You must do all of this either via the 'su'
command from the console with an editor like Emacs or Vim, or log on to
your root account (never be connected to the internet while root, for
security reasons) and edit the file, as you won't have permissions to do so
from your user account. If your computer is fast enough, you can just log
on as root by choosing 'Switch User' from the Kmenu and running a second
session on top of your current session.
Once that's done, with 2 commands you can virtually upgrade your entire
system to the latest everything. You open a console, type 'su' and your
root password, drop to runlevel 3 by typing 'init 3' if you upgrade
anything like KDE or Gnome, and type 'apt-get update' followed by 'apt-get
upgrade' once the former command is completed. Answer 'y' at the prompt
that follows and walk away. You'll come back to an updated machine. That's
not to say there aren't hiccups in that operation, as many times when you
deal with 3rd party packages, there are conflicts that must be resolved.
This means, it'll tell you that some other package must be removed or
replaced to make it work. Usually, it's a naming problem, but sometimes,
like Mozilla (full suite), you simply just can't upgrade because something
else will break, like Epiphany. These will be packages that are labeled as
'held back'. You simply install major packages one at a time, followed by
another 'apt-get upgrade' and more and more will get installed. I had a lot
of KDE packages that were held back, but after I installed 'arts', the rest
came along peacefully with a following 'apt-get upgrade'. Once you get the
hang of it, you'll be amazed at how simple a task with such a major
overhaul of your system is to carry out. You'll have the latest everything
if you configure everything correctly.
You'll still want to run YOU on occasion.
Also, once you get it installed and configured, you can type 'apt-get
install synaptic' and install a GUI frontend for it. However, a full
upgrade still must be performed from the commandline, as upgrading KDE or
Gnome while logged into those environments may give you unwanted results.
It's best to go to runlevel 3 to do such upgrades.
> - but if versions are NOT being changed, then I won't ever get (say)
> from Thunderbird 0.6 to 0.7 just by doing Online Updates?
> - so I'd need to install 0.7 myself (just as well, in view of dire
> warnings about needing to remove old before installing new!)
> - but if I install 0.7, YaST is likely to try to over-write it with
> 0.6 again, unless I do something along the lines that Ruurd Pels
> suggested in a previous thread (YOU and Yast), and it seems to me
> that that could get very complicated if one did it for a lot of apps.
If you installed Thunderbird 0.7 via rpm, YaST will lock out the rpm because
it was from a 3rd party, until you physically go into YaST and choose to
unlock it. Therefore, YOU will make no attempt to change the version you
installed manually.
Also, I don't believe that you have to remove the old before installing the
new, if you do it with a package like an rpm. I believe it's only necessary
if you do it the manual way, as the Mozilla website only allows you to.
Packages are maintained via a 3rd party source and Mozilla doesn't offer
them on their website. At least I've never had a problem upgrading them via
rpm. Packages for the new Thunderbird and Firefox should be released
shortly.
> I'm very confused. There will be a blindingly simple logic to this of
> course, but I just can't see it. What ARE those Online Updates
> doing?
Trust me...install apt4rpm and fuggedaboutet...
-- The manual said to install Windows 2000 or better... So I installed SuSE Linux 9.1!
- Next message: Kerry Sanders: "Re: wlan0"
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- In reply to: B Gruff: "Versions and Updates"
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