Re: WARNING to potential LINUX users
From: Darrell Stec (darrell_stec_at_webpagesorcery.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:18:20 -0400
Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> begin Darrell Stec wrote:
>>Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>begin markzoom wrote:
>>>< snip >
>>>>>>I'm beginning to get a pretty good idea of what kind of group this
>>>>>I doubt this very much. You see, this group isn't meant to handle trolls
>>>>I wouldn't say that advising newbies to make sure they only buy Linux
>>>>compatible hardware is "trolling",
>>>Strange that generally you can go and buy a computer and have all the
>>>hardware working with linux
>>>You see, just a few month ago a bought a new machine. Everything worked
>>>right out of the box, be it DVD burner, firewire card, USB (all devices I
>>>have), mouse, video card, network, audio, *everything* without a single
>>>exception. And I did not ask specificly for linux supported hardware,
>>>since I would have had a working adapter at home for any which might not
>>>have worked. Turned out, it was not needed, all stuff worked right out of
>>>May I suggest that I don't believe you? You are a liar
>>Excuse me, but it just is NOT necessarily true that one can simply walk
>>into a store and buy a computer and have everything working right out of
>>the box with Linux. If you did this either you knew a lot of specific
>>questions to ask and went to a special store and not a large chain like
>>Circuit City/Best Buys/Office Max, OR you were really, really, really
>>lucky. My vote is on the lucky.
> Your vote is meaningless. Most computers nowadays have ATA drives
> (supported) or SATA drives (also supported). IDE CD-ROMS or DVD drives all
> work, without exception. Most computers have NVidia or ATI graphics cards
> built in, which also work. Nearly all Firewire cards work, as do most
> internal network-interfaces. It is really rare to encounter an internal
> audio which is not supported by linux.
> In other words, what you are suggesting is simply ridiculous. You would have
> a point if we talk about laptops, as these tend to be quite specific. If we
> are talking Desktop systems, forget about the usual FUD about hardware not
> I have not bought a single computer the last 4 years which was not supported
> by linux completely, except laptops.
How many computers have you bought in the last four years? I usually do
not change computers every couple of months. Before this one (bought a
few weeks ago) my last personal purchase was in March of 97. It is also
obvious that you don't pay attention to what a poster writes, but rather
spew forth bucolic invective when one holds an alternate opinion. It is
also obvious that you never purchased an HP Pavilion a720n computer.
> The only advice anyone should heed is: Completely forget about Win-hardware.
> These are atrocious under windows itself, and very often are no longer
> supported in the next release. So, simply refuse to buy win-modems (I have
> no need for any modem since I use ADSL and ISDN), and don't buy
And of course if you had read what I have written, you might have
discovered that Win-hardware is exactly that with which the Pavilion
comes bundled and so do quite a few other computers which many on a
budget may be "forced" to purchase.
>>I've been around computers for a very long time. I built my first
>>computer from scratch from discrete components (read that IC chips,
>>transistors, diodes, capacitors,etc.). Built my own Centronics printer
>>interface and wrote a driver for it. I also built my own modem (way
>>back when state of the art was 300 baud) and wrote comm software. So I
>>am not adverse to the learning curves that go with something new.
> Bravo, bravo. Clapping hands.
> Just for the record, so did I. You don't impress me with such stories
> I have done maintenance on Mainframes more than 25 years ago
Should I make the assumption that you are lying when you say you have
built a computer from scratch with discrete components, in light of the
fact you are so sure fired to call everyone else a liar?
And it wasn't meant to impress but rather to demonstrate that I was not
new to computers nor adverse to learning something new.
>>However I do understand the outrage that markzoom felt.
> No, you feign it. What he did was pure and simple trolling, nothing else
> While his initial post might have had some (very little) merit, from then on
> it degraded really fast and he showed to be either really clueless and
> criminally stupid *or* deliberately obstuse and trying anything to make
> things complicated and wrong
> < snip >
Is there anyone who posts in these several Linux newsgroups that you do
not denigrate? While markzoom may have been acerbic in his denunciation
of Linux, it seems it was borne out of frustration with his initial
experience. Yes he could have been less demonstrative in his approach,
but you (and/or your sock puppet) seem to be the only one to
misunderstand his motive.
>>Installing SuSE was FULL of unpleasant surprises even though I read both
>>manuals cover to cover. On my first go-round I decided to custom select
>>my own partitions (as I did formerly with the Caldera eDesktop on the
>>old computer) but decided to change my mind at the last moment as the
>>manual said I could do and opted instead for the recommended partitions.
>> The very first thing I noticed was that there was NO SOUND even though
>>the sound events were turned on and the mixer showed volume was maximum
>>on everything. That was no biggie as it took a while to find the
>>correct sound modules through trial and error for the Sound Blaster on
>>the old comp.
> You are lying. Soundblaster is recognized and will be installed with right
> modules. I simply don't believe you when you say a standard old
> soundblaster is not recognized
Your misbelief originates from your hasty perusal of newsgroups
articles. Had that been slower or your comprehension a tad better, you
would have noted that the Sound Blaster (Creative Labs 16 PNP) card was
installed in the OLD computer and not the HP Pavilion which lacked ISA
slots, and further more that the sound in the Pavilion was generated by
the onboard a97c VIA chip set, and NOT a separate sound card. Please do
try to pay a little more attention, or quit reading others' posts which
you seem to find too contrary.
>>My second surprise was that when I rebooted to WinXP it
>>had been trashed. So I wiped everything clean, reinstalled WinXP and
>>started over with SuSE. So much for installing right out of the box on
>>a new system.
> Sure, the old flatfish troll. You *could* make XP not booting when using the
> wrong BIOS-settings, but you did *not* trash XP. And there was a simple
> workaround to make it boot again. So you, the ubergeek with monstrous
> abilities having build his own computers, proved to be so clueless?
There was no reason for me to alter any BIOS settings prior to the first
attempted installation of SuSE. Everything worked fine as purchased
with WinXP. Next you will be telling me that you too wrote your own HD
disaster recovery software as I once had. Pray tell, what was this
"simple workaround to make it boot again?"
Since you were not present you could not have known whether XP was
trashed or not, as your knowledge of what happened during the original
install of SuSE 9.1 is pedantic. Are you troglodytic to the many
warnings in these newsgroups that HD partitioning software that comes
with the Professional distro is less than perfect?
>>My old system had a Sound Blaster card but because it was
>>ISA could not be installed in my new computer. The new computer had
>>onboard sound -- A97C Via chipset. It took three installs before I got
>>the sound card working, and to-date I can give no reason why it didn't
>>take the first several times.
> Oh, these oh so complicated VIA sound chips...
> I have such a thingy in on of my computers, and it was detected and setup
> correctly in *every* SuSE I have thrown at it, be it 8.2, 9.0 or 9.1
Judging from the many, many posts in various newsgroups and forums,
yours is not the common experience. Everything always works perfectly
for you no matter what the hardware, or what the Linux distribution. I
don't believe you. Not a single reincarnation of Windows can make that
>>Second surprise was that the DVD CDR/+RW would not play DVD movies.
>>Searching Google lead to an explanation about licensing (which NONE of
>>the Windows applications seemed to have) and a shopping list full of
>>additional programs and libraries one must install to make it work (not
>>a high priority but frustrating nonetheless).
> May I suggest you tell us what DVD play in Win-XP out of the box?
> Is it about the same or even less than in SuSE? Why do you complain about a
> situation when bashing linux, but don't do when talking about windows?
> Truth is, you *can't* play DVDs in Win-XP out of the box, without additional
You are simply WRONG. My HP Pavilion a720n with the Philips DVD8421
played Pirates of the Caribbean within ten minutes of turning on the
computer for the first time with no additional software or upgrades
necessary, i.e. right out of the box. The SuSE website itself has a
bulletin concerning the copyright infringement when discussing Xine and
Kaffeine. Apparently either Microsoft or HP sees no copyright
>>The CD player (DVD too)
>>has no audio. Apparently a sound cable is necessary.
> No, it is not, modules for digital audio via IDE bus exist. Although it is
> better to use a cable. It is simply wasteful to spend system resources like
> processor time and bus bandwith for such frivolous things like *playing*
> audio that way. And ripping works with or without that cable
Be that as it may, they were NOT loaded during the installation of SuSE,
and I still have no digital audio. This can be very disconcerting to
one first introduced to Linux, especially if fearful of opening the
computer case and installing a cable. You might notice that is one of
the more prominent fixes suggested on these newsgroups. Do you have
anything helpful to suggest as to what particular modules one might load
to obtain sound for the CD, or do you forever wax brilliant with your
>>accompanying the HP a720n show no sound connection on the motherboard
>>although a visual inspection might evidence one. But I doubt there are
>>two such connectors, so how would one get sound on both the CD and DVD?
>> Incidentally I did try the fix in XMMS to enable digital sound which
>>had no effect.
> It had no effect for *you*
> Which in itself simply says nothing.
Does it say something for the 67,000 posts others have made on the very
problem which are found through a Google search?
> < snip more bullshit from some clueless wintendo luser >
Had you done less snipping and more reading, perhaps you might have
actually been able to volunteer concrete suggestions instead of your
usual diatribe. Have you ever contributed anything of value to these
Linux newsgroups? If so I haven't seen one yet. The "bullshit" happened
to be specific real problems with a specific manufacturer's product,
mentioned to demonstrate that not every computer system is unproblematic
as you so illustriously seem to suggest. What is a wintendo luser? Is
that a pet phrase you use for everyone you encounter who might disagree
> You know, nearly everything in your post except the lenght and some wording,
> would suggest that you are flatfish, the idiot troll, liar and software
> thief. He uses SuSE to bash linux, he has exactly the same complaints (or
> you used his for your rant), he posts from the same timezone with the same
> newsserver. Pity that UniBerlin no longer inserts the IP address and so
> became a troll haven the last month
Posting the IP would mean nothing as AOL is my provider and is dynamic.
Unfortunately local dialup access in my area limited to AOL and one
other less than mediocre "real" ISP which bought out the other 15
competitors. Apparently the opinion formed of you by all the other
CONTRIBUTING regulars is correct. You certainly have exemplified a
vitriolic guggler replete with ad hominem attacks, sans cognition. You
also validate (or rather invalidate) everyone else's experiences with
your own very limited ones.