Re: Bye- bye for another couple of years.
From: markzoom (markzoom_at_digiverse.net)
Date: 2 Nov 2004 16:28:33 -0800
Darrell Stec <email@example.com> wrote in message news:<2upoccF2d28bqU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> markzoom wrote:
> > filesiteguy <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message news:<email@example.com>...
> >>On 1 Nov 2004 15:51:22 -0800, someone posing as markzoom chisled in the
> >>>Linux just isn't ready for home users.
> >>Wrong, dude.
> > Well Suse isn't, but it could soon be.
> >>Check my post here in alt.os.linux.mandrake from June:
> > Totally agree with everything you say there.
> >>I was a very frustrated newbie trying a distro that wasn't for me.
> >>I'm now a very happy newbie having switched to a distro that works for me
> >>with my hardware configuration and needs.
> > Coincidentally, I too started contemplating Mandrake 10 yesterday.
> > The thing that makes me think twice is wether I should go through the
> > aggro of uninstalling suse and installing Mandrake on just on the
> > *chance* that it might operate everything on my multifunction
> > scanner/printer.
> It won't. With any distribution you will have to set up Sane XSane
> software properly. There are about three files that you have to make
> minor changes. That requires using a text editor.
Gonzalo says it worked for him no prob, so I will try the Live CD as
> But face it, even if you were running under Windows, there are times
> when the command line is unavoidable.
The last time I needed to go into Dos was about 4 years ago.
> Here where I live, the Emergency
> traffic system is somehow tied to the cable system. Everyone in town on
> a cable modem must reset their IP in the software because the cable
> modem or route changes its IP. I have quite a few people trained to use
> the command line to find the new IP and place it in the Cable Software.
( Lol. I'm in GB and the nearest traffic light is about 12 miles away)
> There are many times with Windows that deleting the Internet Temp files
> takes seconds in DOS and 20 or more minutes within IE itself. I've
> shown many people how to do that, and they prefer to do so rather than
> wait that length of time.
> >>Linux is what it is. The vendor support may or may not be there, but that
> >>has little to do with the OS and much to do with the bottom line in the
> >>vendors' perceptions.
> >>If you quit, no one will fault you but yourself. If you persist, then you
> >>may gain something. If you switch distros, then do so because one works
> >>better for you. I have nothing against Mandrake. It didn't work for me. It
> >>works great for others.
> > I might have a go but it might be simpler just to wait for things to
> > improve.
> > In the meantime I could also look into Macs.
> > M.K.
> You want an appliance.
Absolutely. Every minute I spend trying to get the appliance to
function is one I don't spend doing what I want or should be doing.
> Many people do, even business owners just want
> their computer or network to work. And there is nothing wrong with
> that. A clothing designer wants to draw, not figure out how the pattern
> printer hooks up to her machine. One of the most difficult things I had
> to learn in my business was that the client did not necessarily want an
> explanation of what EXACTLY was wrong, nor a detailed explanation of
> what I did to fix it. Being the curious person I am and wanting to soak
> up any information I can about almost any subject, I thought my client
> was as curious as I am and would like to know too. I was wrong.
Yes, computers are your work/hobby, my work/hobby is invention. The
essence of good product design is simplicity and ease of use.
> Linux may never get to the point where everything is supported right out
> of the box and therefore may never be right for you. On the other hand
> Windows doesn't support everything either, trouble free.
> I had a friend open up a computer store here in town -- a very small
> town. It was an adventure I considered but decided wouldn't work here
> because the products had to be cheap, both computers and peripherals or
> else the store could not compete with the brand names. So my friend
> bought products as cheaply as he could. The first problem was that
> instead of getting quality products at highly reduced prices (I've
> learned that one has to buy in volumes of 50,000 or better to do that),
> he purchased chintzy products cheap. So what he saved in initial cost,
> he ate in time trying to get this cheap stuff to work together in one
> version or another of Windows. Where a high quality board on the
> Windows Supported Database (Yes, Windows has such a thing and I highly
> recommend using it) might have taken 5 minutes to install, his products
> might take as much as a day or two, swapping this video card with that
> modem, just so Windows would work right. In business time is money. He
> lost time and then lost his business. I have been troubleshooting
> Microsoft systems ever since they came out with DOS 1.25 and I can tell
> you for a fact that if you are unlucky enough to purchase among hundreds
> upon hundreds of modems, video cards, sound cards, CD Roms, etc., you
> can have hours of frustration with MS, and not so infrequently never get
> a certain combination to work. Which is why many independent computer
> shops only stock certain brands and models. Because they KNOW that
> combination works through trial and error and they might go broke
> fidgeting with off the wall products.
The only thing I never got to work in windows in 7-8 years was a cheap
modem card. The only faults I have had was one brandname monitor
exchanged under guarantee, one Samsung monitor blow up and two hard
drives. (Not counting a fried ZX81 about 20 years ago). Conversly
under Suse 8.2 NONE of my peripherals apart from the monitor worked
and now, and now under 9.1 the essential "supported" scanner on the
multifunction won't work (I haven't got around to seeing if my PIC
programmer has a Linux software equivalent but I would probably have
to buy another one that does). I might give Mandrake a shot some time
but if that doesn't work out either, Linux sadly is not ready for my
needs and there is no way I could recommend it to a complete newbie.
To put it bluntly, I would say both Windows and Linux are different
piles of horseshit.
> You have been lucky with your Windows experience.
I get the occasional lockups and crashes but between the choice of
non-working peripherals and a crashy system, working peripherals are a
> I could tell you a
> few thousand horror stories (I've been working with computers a very
> long time). You haven't been as lucky with Linux. There is one other
> observation I might make. People have been frustrated with MS for many
> years and there are a plethora of groups and forums dedicated to
> helping the average home owner or even experienced user with problems.
> The Linux groups because of its origins and selective culture seem to be
> somewhat elitist in its approach to newcomers who are from the Windows
> computer-as-an-appliance sector.
You can say that again. Long time Linux users seem more of a clique
than a community.
> But then that is exactly what Billy
> has been preaching for the last almost 20 years where everything is
> including toaster and coffee pot is connected to your computer and the
> world and all the consumer must do is push a button for instantaneous
> gratification.. You got caught between a clash of ideals.
I suppose the drawback of a non-commercial product is that it's most
likely to be tailored mainly for the enthusiasts who make it. They
have zilch incentive to make something that appeals to people other
> Perhaps these newsgroups is not the way to go for the plug and play
Obviously not.... Sadly I don't think Linux will ever become first OS
unless it's plug and play with most peripherals.
> Many of the independent forums seem less elitist though they
> all have their Peters and Geoffs, even the MS ones too. But for a real
> flambe try one of the PERL groups.
If I try Linux again, I will just google for answers. I certainly
won't dare to suggest anything (like my first thread here, advising
potential newbies to only buy Linux compatible clobber).