Re: Linux? Void my warantee? Make tech support impossible?

From: TokaMundo (TokaMundo_at_weedizgood.org)
Date: 07/12/05 

Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:02:27 GMT

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 21:00:07 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> Gave us:

>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, TokaMundo
><TokaMundo@weedizgood.org>
> wrote
>on Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:19:53 GMT
><21c5d1h0pa7r9hqa79jrjsth8u8qei15hk@4ax.com>:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:50:08 -0500, Lin?nut <lin?nut@bone.com> Gave
>> us:
>>
>>>Patrick Grimbergen poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:
>>>
>>>> You don't want to know how little knowledge some of these people have
>>>> about computers anyway... and they dare call themselves tech support....
>>>
>>>On rare occasions you'll get a tech who understands the concepts, and
>>>then you can get help without regard to OS.
>>
>> I would see such an occasion as rare... indeed.
>>
>> Some idiot with a fresh A+ cert gets a job before me with my years
>> of experience with hardware from the XT on up. Everything from MFM to
>> ESDI and SCSI. I'd bet that your average tech today has never even
>> heard of the first two types. Same for ISA and EISA!
>
>I'm old enough to remember SASI, though I can't say I've ever had
>a machine therewith. (I do have an old 7300 with an RLL drive, though.)
>
>>
>> I have worked with many OSes as well... from basic DOS to DesqViewX
>> (nice early xserver)
>
>Which regrettably died. Did look promising, though, at one point.
>
>> to OS/2 to Linux. Not to mention AIX and others
>> in that realm as well. I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you
>> afterwards... ;-]
>
>Oh great, you're one of *those*. Well, you be the judge of which
>NSA secrets you keep; I'm not going to pry.
>
>Much. :-)
>
>(ObLinux: selinux looks interesting; I'll admit I'm wondering how
>much of it is going back into 2.6. Probably quite a bit.)
>

Just ask Novell and Suse... I'll bet they embrace it quite deeply...

>>
>> Hey y'all... take note: Linux is the best, most stable, most deeply
>> developed consumer level OS there is. Professional as well...
>
>I'd quibble on that -- mostly because someone else will probably
>bring up such things as FreeBSD, and even DOS can be very stable
>if one doesn't juice it up to where it falls over with extra
>drivers that start colliding with each other. (Of course DOS
>doesn't do all that much to begin with.)
>

  Hehehe... yeah, but TANGO (EDA app) is a real good layout package.

>But I do have to agree that it's a lot more stable than a certain
>offering from Microsoft, though Windows XP is an improvement
>over Win95 or 98. But Linux is still better.

  Yeah... I do not like dot net... errr... I mean look over your
shoulder boulder holder... Quite invasive...

>
>> LOOK... it's on a LOT of servers out there, and has been for years...
>> That says something... seriously.
>
>It says the Unix vendors may be in trouble. :-) But it is a
>tribute to Linux's stability, not to mention cost.
>
>>
>> Now, it is finally becoming an (any monkey can do it) OS that is
>> ready for the basic user desktop. And contrary to what "they" would
>> have one believe, HELP is ALWAYS available. Detailed help .
>>
>> The real weird thing is that it is RICH with applications, security,
>> and everything else one would want (freedom from viral attack).
>
>No system is totally safe, but Linux is inherently compartmentalized,
>borrowing from Unix in that regard. With proper system management
>techniques Linux attacks at most wipe out the compromised account.
>Since this is not root the system isn't jeopardized -- as much, anyway.

  Exactly... Many Win2k users still log in as administrator... not
that it makes a big difference in vulnerability.

>
>It's a bit like a submarine with proper bulkheads versus a
>metal box one sits in to submerge. Which one's safer if
>a hole develops? Linux is a bit like the sub, as are Unix and
>FreeBSD, for that matter.
>
>(Windows does have bulkheads but they're harder to locate.)

  It takes longer to get one installed if a weak point in the tub is
found as well... if at all...
>
>>
>> So all these windows centric people are just spewing utter crap.
>> They barely know there on operating systems, and that only to the
>> depth that billy allows.
>
  "there on"? That should be their own... :-]

>Andrew Schullman's _Unauthorized Windows 95_ has some interesting
>takes on the marketing angle -- apparently Win95 was sold at one
>point as "getting rid of DOS", for example, despite the copious
>evidence presented in the book that Win95 and DOS are codependent.
>Dry but informative.

  I still feel that even XP home is a fixed up win 98 gui under a
pseudo dos underpinning...

>> Like another poster observed..."When was the last time Billy let you
>> compile your kernel with optimizations specific to your own system?"
>
>Kernel? Duh? What's a kernel? Is that one of the avatars one
>can pick from the selection menu, right next to the doggy? :-)

  Hehehe... I don't know how to spell dog moaning and whimpering
sounds...
>
>>
>> Hell, he doesn't let anyone get that close to his crap, because we
>> would all laugh at the patched up mess that it really is.
>>
>> Even his TCP/IP stack is an addon. NOT INTEGRATED.
>
>Well...it's integrated (or was in Win95) to the point where
>one doesn't have to futz around with DOS protocol stacks.
>Yuck. Of course it's not all that great a stack, even
>now -- and the good bits were apparently borrowed from
>BSD code.

  What "good" thing he has anywhere wasn't "borrowed" from a better
source? Hell "Explorer" (inet) is a mosaic clone.

>>
>> Remember, just like AOL, Billy's company was found, in a court of
>> law, to be ripping off his customers.
>
>After *how* many years of litigation? It's almost as disgusting to
>watch as the machinations of Congress. :-)

  Ben Franklin would fire all of them.

>
>> Why we didn't boycott, and
>> subsequently kill AOL is beyond me.
>
>Probably because no one really cared -- or knew.

  Exactly. I want a "reality" TV show called "Who do we boycott next"

> The cognoscenti
>can pontificate but people do have to get their work done, and if
>all they're familiar with is the tattered flag product, then that's
>the one they'll probably use.

  My god... have you seen how many incorrectly made US flags there are
out there?

  That is one thing I have a photographic memory (or is that mammary)
for. I can see when the dimensions are wrong or when the stars are
screwed up at a glance!
>
>Until we can get into the mainstream consciousness -- and
>it's getting there;

  When? I just got kicked out of my third apartment (all of us) so
they (the builders and banks) can "convert" them into titled
condominiums. I cannot believe that any idiot would buy one,
especially at twice the rate I paid for rent on these cracker jack
boxes.

  All I want is remuneration for my expenses on three moves!

 If they have the right to pursue their respective happiness, how can
they have the right to do at the expense of mine?

> asking a sand dune, tsunami, or a snail
>to move faster is ridiculous but one will get the effect
>eventually. Of course a sand dune or tsunami are a *lot*
>more destructive but it's the metaphors coming to mind.

  Just ask Kaddahfi (spelling)... the Sahara grow one mile per year
into Libya. HA HA HA!

>
>Watch out, Microsoft. :-) The world is about to be flooded with
>cheap, reliable applications.
>
  The death knoll has sounded... Just like congress though... it is
growing at a slow pace.

>>
>> Why we don't make Billy suffer is as well. He gives to a charity...
>> big woop. It isn't enough.
>
>Suffering shouldn't be the objective here. Ideally, one wouldn't
>have to kill the enemy in a war, but neutralize him.

  He'll be in appeals courts for years to come.

> Of course,
>there's a few issues here probably not worth going into, but at
>some point Linux's tidal wave may very well accomplish what
>all the verbiage written by Microsoft does not: convince the business
>community and then the people that there is a better way.

  It has to feel like an NYPD broomstick handle to some of his
"customers". I'm sure he considers them "prize customers".

>
>Remember IBM, and the march of the clones. IBM was unhappy (because
>they got undercut) but the most prevalent desktop is now an Intel-based
>beastie...and it's *still* got the INT2-9 issue, 640K conventional
>memory, and the A20 hack.

  oooooo.... FAST A20! Heheheh... OS/2 never did get developed for
the PPC platform, and Billy is one of the reasons why. It seems OS/2
had some of the same issues that DesqViewX had with win32 particulars.

>
>>
>> Why does any CS student (particularly those of military beginnings)
>> know that Linux is a much better OS than windows?
>>
>> Why? Because they were properly educated. Why do MS** cert idiots
>> think and spew that it is not? Because of their BillyEdjumacation.
>
>And because the issue is slightly confused. Time was that an OS was
>merely the kernel; one accessed the OS through API calls that went
>through a "firewall" (in Intel there's a callgate and a trapgate
>concept, if memory serves; in the old PDP/11 hardware they were
>simply called "traps").

  Ewwwww.... batch processing...

> Linux still has this, of course -- the x86
>variant uses int $0x80. (Don't use this in programs unless you
>know what you're doing -- but it's not that hard to figure it out,
>if one looks at the source and is competent in assembly. But
>mixing this with libc calls should be done with some care.)
>
>>
>> Billy is also responsible for the inordinate price one pays for
>> software in his realm as well.
>
>I'm not entirely sure about that, though it's clear that he's
>at least partially responsible by suckering the populace.

  He has artificially inflated the cost of IT departments around the
world. Well, I guess it isn't "artificial" since it is real..

>However, it's also clear that we're willing to pay, if only
>through silent assent. Perhaps we need to be more vociferous,
>and complain to such notables as Dell. (Don't complain too
>loudly; Dell already has an "alternative workstation" program
>that sells high-end Linux workstations. To some extent
>they've addressed the issue, though I'm not sure how well.)

 What ever happened to HP's RISC SISC 64 bit platform?
Fell by the wayside due to high cost of ownership maybe...
>
>>
>> They all went to the Bill Gates' School of Suck Mo Cash.
>>
>> No piece of software or his OS is worth what is asked for it.
>> The electronics industry made this country's economy. Then Billy
>> comes along, and sells you next to nothing for a huge price...
>> THEN, he gets companies to pay him even more every year for a customer
>> service obligation that should have been part of the base software
>> purchase. Sneaky fucker... worse than a friggin' landlord.
>>
>> The thing is that it is becoming clear to folks that the screwing
>> they are getting isn't worth the screwing they are getting.
>>
>> THAT is why things are shifting. To late to be scared BillyWare
>> boys... The tide is already turning. Y'all better bone up on a
>> little diversity before that fear of being outside the box catches up
>> to you.
>>
>> The military is embracing Linux practically full bore. That should
>> tell everyone something...
>
>Well, the military always did value security over functionality
>or comfort. :-) So would I were I in their shoes.
>
>>
>> "Something wonderful" --David Bowman
>>
>> The word for today is "Practical Functionality"
>>
>> Is linux practically functional... YES.
>
>Linux per se ... no. But like the grit in a pearl, it's been
>wrapped to make it very usable in a host of applications.

  At least we are working toward that end, not merely charging
customers for the next patch and calling it a full release...

>
>>
>> Is windows practically functional... depends on who one asks.
>> One doesn't see it in use on any jet fighters... eh...
>
>I'm not sure one sees Linux in many jet fighters, even if it's
>the underpinnings of the HUD therein.

  Though it isn't...

> Ideally, one just sees
>the HUD doing its thing, displaying the info the fighter pilot
>needs to make critical decisions like when to bank the plane,

 Key word... critical. No windows will be there. Not ready for
mission critical applications.

>when to drop his ordinance, when to twist like hell and dump
>chaff and flares to avoid the missile(s) on his six, etc.

 To many "wait states" with BillyWare for that...

>
>One might say Linux is well-nigh invisible in that case -- and
>it's a good thing, too. Windows tends to be very noisy...
>
>>
>> Y'all have a nice day...