Re: Is SuSe ready for me yet?

markzoom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Penguiniator wrote:
markzoom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
[...]
I suspect that you are a Windows user who wants Linux to behave
just like what you are used to using so that you won't have to
learn anything new,

Well, yes. I want to learn as little as possible. You see, I want to
USE my computer, not spend weeks/months learning trying to get things
working when they should do so anyway.

me too, and I do. Suse 10.0 is better than its predecessors 9.3 and 9.1
and 9.0, and I started with a retail 9.1 (with free support) and a
downloaded 9.0. They astounded me with their ease of install and use. No
kidding. Two years previously I got someone else to install a mandrake
(8.0?) on an older PC and never used it, it was a bit clunky. The old PC
made it slow for the gui anyway. I was busy.

If you install the suse 'evaluation' version of 10.0 or be sure to
include the extras CD of 10.1 you will get something which works for
most things out of the box, particularly if you dont mind a few clicks.
However - mark this - you will not have a quick way of finding out
*where* to use the few clicks!
My installs were working and found the internet via my lan instantly.
10.0 even played bbc radio sound.

[...]

I spent weeks of frustration with previous SuSes, so I'm not
going to go through it all again if it hasn't become easier.

it has become very much easier.

I give
it a try if it has improved (ie. become more intuitive and simpler)
but otherwise I'll just wait another couple of years.

A year in linux time is equivalent to many years of windows time.
Linux is changing at an unbelievable pace.

[...]

Look, If most stuff works within a few mouse clicks, I'll be happy.

you will be happiest if
1) you use the suse CDs or repositories and choose from the 1000's of
apps there
2) you regard root sign on as a dangerous medication. It is easier to
wreck your system than with windows, there are few warnings after a root
sign on.
3) you expect a different culture. Linux is as much a community as an OS.

[...]

I use SUSE 10.1 and haven't had to use the keyboard to install or
configure anything. But that does not mean I download Setup.exe or
Install.exe files from Web sites and click on them from my desktop
to install them.

Why not? After bunging in a CD, that's the simplest and most
widespread way of installing programs.

note that exe files do not run on linux natively. I install things with
mouse clicks. Various ways in various distributions. There are more
general methods using the command line, which in 3 years as a newbie I
have almost never used at all.
Note also that an exe file is very carefully prepared for use *only*
with windows. There are files which exist in an analogous way for linux,
with a number of different types, choices etc. suse uses RPM as does Red
Hat. Debian uses deb or rpm can be converted to deb. I just click the mouse.

[...]

Oh.... I was hoping it had been made simpler to use.

It has.

If Novell wants
people to use Suse at work, they'll have much more $business$ if it's
already used by ordinary simpletons at home.

They do already know this.

[...]

I can cope with a new environment if it's designed for ease of use,

It will install and run with no problem. Easier than windows. There are
options which have the objective of ease of use. However there is a lot
to learn, if you intend to be your own administrator you will use some
significant *effort* to find out what you need to know.

but I'm not going to bother with the effort of longwinded procedures
that require memorising (console commands, for example). That would
be a step backwards.

Then you will not bother with them, as you do not in windows.

I had hoped making an OS easier to use would be the prime intention.

Why the prime intention?
Remember that linux is open source. It is developed by anyone who
chooses to do it. Quality is decided by popular vote (use).
Linux comes from a *community*. From volunteers, donations, business
sponsorship, etc. If you wanted to publish your own OS-easy-ux
distribution, you are free to do this.

However, when the interesting debate is put aside, linux *is* easier,
and a number of activity streams and projects have moved to get the best
of all worlds, and a good job they produce too. Suse is a good (one)
example.

It sure won't catch on with home users if it isn't, but remain a
fringe OS.

There are many factors relating to what home users 'want'. Not many
factors are particularly Linux sensitive. This is part of the culture
change which awaits you if you start to use linux more seriously. A
number of linux distributions are already better and easier to use than
windows, but ......

[...]

Well, I'll check if it's become more intuitive, but from what you
tell me I won't hold out much hope.

LOL. Don't leave it too long, life itself is a terminal condition!

[..]

I introduced
some very reluctant people to the net, my 82 year old mother and some
friends in their 60s. Any application that won't work with a few
mouse clicks is therefore useless to them (and me).

A distro like Suse will be easier for them and yourself. Them because
the configuration will remain stable, yourself because presumably you
maintain them. I have done the same thing, and when I replaced windows
with suse 10.0 it was easier all round. (80+ year old gent).
A point to be emphasised again - as administrator, you will need to know
a bit more than the elderly users. However, from my experience with suse
I can say that if you want to stay pointy clicky as I do, it is easily
possible.

[...]

I can get XP running and streamlined no problem but I'm fed up with
spyware, virus protection, firewalls etc. (security, basically)
because it's me who has to sort out my mother's, my friend's and my
wife's computers.

Yes indeed, the above topic. Suse is a good platform. With linux you
will not need to 'sort out' their OS's. You will need to answer their
questions though, after you have answered your own.......

I trust that you have already given them the usual Open Source apps (for
windows) such as firefox, thunderbird, openoffice, etc etc etc? If not,
then you have a way to go yet. They are the same in linux.

I'd also obviously prefer not to spend money on
software but use some stout fellow's labour of love.

Consider also the possibility that with ongoing experience you may
become part of the community yourself, perhaps championing ease of use.

[...]

I too wish that Linux would be easier to get running than windows,

It is, don't worry. I spent most of yesterday trying to get sound from
xp on a dell laptop after a reinstall of xp from dell CDs. It was a long
and frustrating process, and it sounds as if I have similar experience
of PCs to yourself. What was most bitter sweet was that the sound in the
dual boot Suse 10.0 part of the same machine worked perfectly.
Again, yesterday - I have a multi boot old pc without a soundcard. I
put one in. Turned on and looked at the setup screens (bios) an irq was
conflicting. I ignored it, and booted suse. Sound worked after nominal
(3 clicks) configure of defaults. I looked at the suse hardware info
screens, no sign of an irq conflict. I do not know enough to explain,
but that is the way I like it anyway. Working. Oh, and I then booted
into another distro (kubuntu). Sound also worked no prob. I have not yet
booted it into windows.

I'll see
how 10.1 fares with my limited attention span

Note - it is *important* to do the online updates early on. With 10.1,
these are best done during the install process when invited.
Note also - the KDE window manager is more familiar to (you and I) than
other w managers.

[...]

I'll fiddle with it for a few of
days but if it won't easily do what I want it to

It most certainly will do what you want it to. But whether you will
intuitively know how to get it to do this is a different question. Your
intuition has been honed to keep you hooked on feeding money to big
business, and you are getting fed up with that, as I was.
*Don't let windows intuition stop you from breaking free*

Good luck
--
ac
.

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