Re: My views on openSUSE
- From: houghi <houghi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:35:46 +0200
Paul J Gans wrote:
<snip>
We agree to this point.
2. To have an install for people with Linux experience.
Check. Done already.
For this there should NOT be automatic installs of Open
Office or Firefox. Options to boot into level 3 should
be obvious. In fact as little should be installed as
possible. And what is installed should have as few
dependencies as possible.
Check. Done already.
NOT DONE ALREADY. You get an automatic selection of
packages, about 650 of them. You then have to go through
the list and delete what you do not want.
Or you deselect complete parts. As it is something that is a standard,
if you want to change that, you indeed need to select them manually and
see if you want them or not.
You could start with a minimal install and then add stuff as well.
This is a tedious and time-consuming job. There should
be a choice for a base system in Phase 1 of the install
and a spot to allow the user to install groups of packages
in Phase 2 of the install.
No. Not more steps then there already are. And you CAN select and
deselect groups of packages. e.g. Development, GNOME or KDE can be
selected. Perhaps you dislike those choices, so make better ones.
NOT DONE ALREADY. There is no place, after the reboot,
for the user to add software to be installed.
Uh, yes there is. I install software after the reboot all the time.
NOT DONE ALREADY. It can be done if and only if /home is
on its own partition.
As that is the default installation, I would say it is already done. If
you are playing around with your partitions, you should know what you
are doing.
3. To have an install for experts.
Check. Done already.
NO. NOT DONE ALREADY.
I consider myself not realy a newbie and am pretty knowledgable aqbout
the installation. I would say it can be done. If you do not know how to,
then obviously you are not an expert as much as you thjought you were.
NOT DONE ALREADY. You are making me wonder a good bit.
If things mess up in Phase 2, you can't simply reboot
and get back to the install script again. You are on
your own at that point.
I have done that and came back to where I left.
This is not an impossible situation. I've done this
several times in the past. But it is a bad design.
Nobody loves spending time doing installations. One
should be able to reboot and get back into the auto
installation routine of Phase 2.
If you do occsional installations, then those few hours every 2 years or
every year are just standard maintencence. If you do many installations
and are unhappy about the things that are installed, then concentrate on
what AutoYaST can offer you. You can completely steed the installation
process.
The advantage of doing it with YaST is that it IS sem-intelligent
(althjough never intelligent enough) and will look at the hardware as
well as other things to install stuff or not.
That way you can select what you want installed, configure that and it
will install that on whatever hardware you trow at it and will most
likely get a running system, even if the hardware differs.
I'm not sure what this means. A number of the packages ON
THE INSTALL disk are broken or cause serious problems for
many users.
I have yet to see one broken (uninstallable) package on any of the ISO's
I have tried in the past.
It is painful to go through the entire package selection
list (about 650 packages, as I remember) and edit it
while you still have no idea if the install will work.
As most things take up only place on your hard drive and hard
drive space is cheap, who cares wether you take up 500MB or
2GB on my 250GB+ HD
You miss the point. It isn't the space, it is the *time*
the selection takes.
See above. If you do it once on a machine, this is not a real issue, as
you will do it max once every year. If you do it on many machines, then
put some time into how YaST does handle this. You will need to do the
selection once and you are done.
Many ways to do what you desire.
Valid point. Put it up on bugzilla and/or the factory mailinglist
Hougi, if the openSUSE folks don't know about this, they
ought to go into another line of work.
If it isn't in Bugzilla, it doesn't exist. It is up to you and me and
others to tell them. When you don't, do not blame THEM for not knowing.
Don't worry. I'm controling my temper. I DO NOT WANT
TO USE POINT 1 FOR MYSELF. I know that you don't care
about folks new to Linux. I do. And I want an install
for them.
I DO care for people new to Linux. I recommend them to do the standard
installation. Accept all defaults (after taking a backup of their data)
and NOT to deinstall-install or do anything during the installation.
You obviously have the idea that a person new to Linux should start
playing with settings during installation. My idea is to do that AFTER
the installation.
When I installed 10.2, I had enough problems to drive a
newbie back to DOS. I got through them. A newbie would
have run screaming.
The last time I had that happen was when I tried 5.2 or 5.4. After that
I never had any problems WHEN I USED DEFAULT SETTINGS. The problems I
had were only when I messed things up.
houghi
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