Re: Suse 10.3 and DVD::RIP

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:00:43 +0200, houghi wrote:

I really wish Gnome would not insist on this approach. There is no
reason for them to create a schism where one need not exist.

As I do not do anything, except install the software I want, I do not
have an issue with it.

Here is the issue. Yes, you can insall KDE and Gnome both in entirety.
Likewise you can make apps run under both that are meant for the other
manager.

Approximately 5 years ago all the distros could do this easily. Then
Gnome began to sort of fork off and became increasingly unfriendly to
compile and install.

With Mandriva you can also do the same. I mentioned that it's package
manager shows all files that will be installed. When you see how much
has to be installed to run one Gnome-centric app on a KDE system you
might exclaim, "Good grief. I have to install 75 MB of stuff to run a 2
MB application ???".

This is very inefficient and poor design. One question I raise is whether
that inefficiency is by accident or design. Gnome started on it's
divergence about the same time some Dead Rat started making deals with
traditional cooperate vendors.

The result is yes it can be done but you end up with a precarious
balance with each new iteration of Gnome (and KDE but to a lesser
degree). Compounding the problem is that Gnome is a real PITA to compile
and package even when there is no KDE around at all.

So Pat Vokerling Slackware founder and author has stated that in order
to put forth the best product he and his team can no longer devote that
much time on Gnome when they are working on a new release. So he dropped
the Gnome desktop. Now it appears what he said outright other distros
have not, while quietly taking the same approach.

Backing up as I said 5 years ago this was not an issue. In the time
since then I see little that has changed with Gnome other than it
becoming such a PITA.

And what happens is there is a Suse way to attack the problem, a Mandriva
way to attack the problem and so on which creates a fragmented Linux
Community regarding how to resolve these issues and IMO that is not a
good thing.

So in summary my objections to all of this are based on the principals
of the Open Software movement and as a user wanting to understand how
each Desktop works. In order for me to increase that knowledge it's
best not to mix the two so I can first study each in isolation from the
other.

One day perhaps I will learn enough so as to understand both in great
depth. I feel pretty darn good about KDE right now but Gnome has become
a black box to me over the last five years. I fact my first encounter
with these issues came when I was trying to compile an app, and it
bombed saying it needed XYZ. So I added that and then it bombed saying
yet another thing was needed and then another and another at which point
I said "Good grief. What is going on here? I never had to do this
before".

Not that's been a while so I don't recall exact details. Since that time
I've had occasion to try to compile apps like DVD::RIP and started
seeing the same type failures. Well having been down that road before I
know it's gonna lead to a very frustrating experience and I give up IN
EXPECTATION of what is going to follow if I continue. So I don't bother
to chase down the exact problems anymore.

Besides there are guys that will post on the topic sooner or later on
USENET who I know and respect as they have a heck of a lot more expertise
with C and C++ that I do. I'm a FORTRAN guy and frankly C looks like an
alien language to me.

Also if I'm spending hours studying a problem I'd rather it be spent on
learning more about the video stuff right now and it's a very time
consuming endeavor.

Having said all that there is certainly nothing wrong with doing it
like you do. For one Suse is your base distro. Mine is Slackware and
they are different. A task or tweak that takes me a few seconds in Slack
might take an hour for me in Suse. Likewise a task that takes you a few
minutes in Suse might take an hour in Slack.

Which path you take in issues like this depends on what you cut your
linux teeth on and with what you've spent the most time with since then.

That must be balanced with what tasks you do every day and how much time
you have left over for "exploration".

Having said all of that I sure would like to see version 10.3 of
Suse/KDE. As I mentioned 10.2 give me a real hassle for some reason so
I had dropped back to 10.1. Now 10.3 appears to me to be much more
polished. I know if was gonna go the rpm route Suse would be the first
choice hands down. IMO installing Dead Rat is like becoming an Alpha
tester. It's not even close Suse is so far superior.

Perhaps in about 3-4 months I'll be able to free space (I am working
with anther test install so I have three Linux distros now). I expect to
have completed one project in a few months, maybe sooner. then I'll have
the space I like to have. Geez I just bought anther 160GB drive to handle
video overflow. Right now my total usable storage capacity is about
..75TB.

I remember the day I was so overjoyed that I finally got a huge 540MB
HD for $500 :(

--
Email - rsgibson@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Replace borg with net
If its Tourist Season, why can't we shoot 'em ???

.

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