Re: Hey, Gentoo folks...

From: pacifican (none_at_given.org)
Date: 11/09/03 

Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:27:39 GMT

Andy Fraser wrote:

> pacifican uttered the immortal words:
>
>>>>> It's still no reason to fight each other.
>>>>
>>>> You are right. I agree. A person should not be called an uncool troll
>>>> for asking a valid question.
>>>
>>> That's deliberately missing the point and you know it ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Wrong.
>
> No, I'm right. You're more concerned that you were called a troll. This is
> Usenet, who cares?
>

What a laugh, you are making the point that we should all get along because
we are all using Linux to a person that is trying to discuss technical and
support differences, while ignoring people that use personal insults!
Sorry, but I am not buying it.

My asking valid questions and discussing differences in distros is somehow
wrong to you but calling people trolls is OK? That is just plain BS.

>>> Manu T is 100% right. Linux *is* Linux. Whether your distro of choice is
>>> Debian, Slackware, Red Hat, Mandrake, Gentoo, SuSE or one of the others,
>>> we are all using the same operating system.
>>>
>>
>> If Linux is Linux then a distro compiled for a Sparc can run on an Intel
>> system, right? Linux compiled for the mainframe is capable of running on
>> cellphone, eh? A distribution that is designed for the embedded market
>> should be able to replace the Linux that is running the Linux Networx
>> supper cluster, the third fastest computer in the world, without
>> modification, hmmmmmmm?
>
> You've missed the point again. I was talking about the "my distro is
> better than your distro" type argument that's been raging in this thread.
> ]

Then you are claiming that all distros are equally good at EVERYTHING?????
That is plain BS. The funniest thing about your comment is I am being
labeled as a Redhat fan when I am not. I am trying to find alternatives to
Redhat that I can justify to a business that needs to run Oracle or wants
the support of companies like HP, IBM, etc. I am asking the gentoo
supporters the questions that I would be asked if I tried to justify using
Gentoo. The Gentoo people have been unable to answer these VALID questions.
Now, because I ask VALID questions for VALID reasons, you are here BS'ing
that I am engaging in "my version is better than yours" squabling. I have
news for you, My preferred version of Linux is Mandrake and I have not
mentioned that at all. The fact is, I have been trying to get what I would
need to justify Gentoo in a corporate environment. What I have been doing
is comparative Analysis. Comparative analysis of the options is something
that should be done before selecting the final product.

There is an easy way to end this. Read the following situation and question
carefully, It is a real situation I have been faced with:

I have been tasked with the design of a mission critical web application
that needs to have Oracle as a backend to interface with legacy
applications. The company is not going to be able to afford to have an
absolute Oracle Guru and will need to rely on Oracle support, including
being able to get an Oracle tech on site when needed. The decision has
already been made that all of the new servers will run the same version of
what ever OS is decided upon. I have all the justification I need to go
with Linux. Now I need to decide which distribution of Linux I need.
Because of the need for support from Oracle I have looked at the Oracle
support page and found the supported Linux versions are Redhat and Members
of United Linux
http://otn.oracle.com/tech/linux/htdocs/linux_techsupp_faq.html
Until the SCO thing is settled, I am reluctant to recommend anything that
comes from Untied Linux, so that leaves Redhat as the obvious choice.

Both Gentoo users and Debian users have been making claims about their
respective OS's. Fine, but I have a specific set of needs. So, I ask them a
question:

What does Debian or Gentoo offer that would be of enough value that I would
recommend Debian or Gentoo over Redhat? What does Gentoo or Debian offer
that would offset the loss of support from Oracle (keeping in mind that
support from Oracle is a requirement)?

Now, can you honestly say that this is not a valid question to ask? NO. Has
anybody given me anything close to something that could replace Oracle
support? NO. Has anyone shown that Debian or Gentoo has anything with
enough of an advantage to give up Oracle support? No. Have the gentoo and
debian supporters been able to support any of their claims with supporting
documentation? Only an slight (when looking at the total cost of the
project) cost issue and that apt-get is better than RPM, but not that the
difference even comes close to making up for what is lost by not getting
Oracle support. I have seen a lot of claims made, but when I investigate, I
find the exact opposite of most of the claims. I _WANT_ a reason that I can
recommend something OTHER than Redhat, that is why I keep asking for
justifications that would allow me to use something other than Redhat.

Now, I ask you, given the requirements, would Debian or gentoo be the right
choice for the job? If you think so, how would YOU justify them to the
people paying the bills?

This is a totally valid question to ask. If you can not come up with a valid
answer then it is time for you to shut up.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: WTF are you talking about?
    ... stable as Oracle on Redhat, fine, that is a CLAIM. ... the total inability for the Gentoo and Debian suppouters understand ... Any support for Gentoo on the newsgroups? ... convinces me that Gentoo is being used in production environmets at all. ...
    (alt.os.linux)
  • Re: WTF are you talking about?
    ... A bunch of debian and gentoo users make a bunch of claims about ... The ability to have multiple channels of support has VALUE. ... with the possible support from Oracle and support from the newsgroups ...
    (alt.os.linux)
  • Re: Hey, Gentoo folks...
    ... Gentoo is Linux. ... Redhat has been tested and is supported ... >> major players are testing and are planning to support Gentoo. ... If you claim I will get a better working Oracle using Gentoo, ...
    (alt.os.linux)
  • Re: Oracle memory allocation on Linux 2.6
    ... asked the support if this is really a supported configuration (at least ... direct I/O should lower memory consumption simply because it ... essentially the same approach as the one taken by oracle. ... With Linux, I really have a problem with the ...
    (comp.databases.oracle.server)
  • Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet?
    ... Why would anyone in their right mind want to run Linux for mission critical ... stream for Redhat is providing support. ... revenue were to go to other companies such as Oracle then you would have to ... Those customers will probably find that the quality of their support isn't ...
    (comp.os.vms)