Re: Linux locking on boot

From: Walter Mautner (nextnews.15.eatallspam_at_spamgourmet.com)
Date: 04/04/04 

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:54:17 +0200

WTH wrote:

....
> There are, shall we assume, certain discussion types that occur on ngs.
>
> I. Short discussions where somebody makes an original post that has a one
> response type of answer, such as: "Where is modules.conf?"

Ok. Then the answer (to a short question, requiring no scroll) can sit on
top or on the bottom, with no difference except readability.
But you never know ... a 3rd poster might jump in and then top-posting
begins to introduce headaches.

> II. Long discussions where somebody starts a train (wreck) of thoughts
> such as: "Was the night of the long knives a purge in the historical
> sense?" where there are many answers over a very long series of posts
> (most likely) where people merely add to the length of the post in
> summations and do not comment inline

Somewhere along the way the original thought will become obsolete (read: the
thread drifts offtopic) and one of the followup-posters can sefely snip the
original post.

> III. Long discussions (using the above example) where people comment
> inline.
>
That's fine, as inline comments don't need the whole history attached. The
style of bottom- or inline posting includes snipping away parts of the
message you don't want to comment on. A "newcomer" can and should always
start reading at the top of the thread, for the original posting.

> In example one, *assuming* people have read the original post, what is the
> advantage to bottom posting in your reply? I don't see one. I can see a
> very minor advantage in top posting because people who have just read the
> original post will not have to scroll through the original post in your
> reply before seeing your actual textual reply. This is mostly a *who
> cares* type of scenario where people's personal tastes are the only
> discriminating factor.
>
Regular usenet posters/repliers are accustomed to bottom posting, and can
get seriously annoyed if they have to scroll down the whole message to
discover just nothing at the end. Top posting a few lines with full quote
is called "TOFU" and the worst behavior.
 
...
> Example three is a *** situation where it doesn't really matter if you
> top or bottom post because you're ending up a 'middle poster'
> irregardless.

No, remember when you reply you always got the last word. Anything following
your last word is eaten and surely has to be cut off.
It's no offense to streamline a posting in usenet, neither is it impolite.
....
> That's my honest opinion. I'm used to bottom posting, I bottom post, but
> when I look at it objectively, overall top posting appears to be more
> participant friendly and bottom posting appears to be more 'initial
> observer' friendly, except that the initial observer can simply follow the
> posts from their start (as they should in any case because we know how
> much stuff gets <SNIP>ed, lol.)
>
And that's a Good Thing(TM). Especially on longish threads.

>> The distributed nature of Usenet is causing that not everyone sees all
>> posts in a particular thread in the right order or or even at all. If
>> you make sure you put your reply in a top-to-bottom order, people will
>> be able to easily read through it from top to bottom.
>
> Do people realize that this 'fact' is a holdover from the early days of
> usenet where messages would take (potentially) days to appear?
>
They still take long, nntp protocol is store-and-forward and often newsfeeds
are delayed to off-business hours or even after midnight.

...
> In all honestly Sybren, I really believe that top posters have the most
> logical solution, I just don't want to change.
>
Good so. Stick with the accepted standards, the logic of the "mainstream" of
usenet posters. Oh, and usenet is a lot older then Microsofts first
news-capable e-mail client. 

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