Re: Installing Linux on Windows dual boot machine

From: imotgm (imotgm_REM_at_invalid-yahoo.com)
Date: 04/20/05 

Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:43:22 GMT

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:15:27 +0100, MikeyD wrote:

>> If you do any of the above, (and this just scratches the surface of the
>> possibilities available) where do you keep the input files, working
>> files, and output files?
>
> Yes, I do many of them, other than the video related stuff. I kept the
> files mostly on the fat32 windows partition. Sure there's no permissions,
> but it's not a big problem, you just make ~/data a symlink to somewhere on
> the win partition and store big files there.

If you resort to this, you prove my point of needing more than 3GB, and it
is a big problem. It defeats the whole idea of Linux security as
established by those permissions. How can one learn the importance of
security measures, if the first thing you do is eliminate them?

> If it was ntfs he'd have a problem, but it isn't.

But it will be NTFS, as the OP already stated. He put XP on a fat32
partition only so that he could rescue files with Win98, which he is now
eliminating.

>> I certainly do not know what the OP's interests are, nor is it any of my
>> business. I do know that having more space than you need hurts nothing,
>> but having too little, can bring everything to a screeching halt. If
>> the OP's interests lead him to some of the programs I find enjoyable,
>> 6GB is going to feel like a straight jacket.
 
> Hmm, possibly. But when the choice is between a simple method that will
> give him 6Gb and trying to move the partition which may well mess up his
> system, I'm inclined to go with the 6gb. I felt it was enough for me

Now we agree; 6GB is enough for a learning Linux.
 
>>> I think you're better off to leave hda6 as empty space when you do the
>>> windows partitioning. Then tell the distribution installer to install
>>> into the empty space, making its own partitions. Certainly with
>>> Mandrake this was the easiest way to do it.
>>
>> If, as is suggested in my model presented here, you use the disk
>> partitioner CD that comes with your hard drive, you will not be given
>> the choice to leave the last partition empty. Mandrake will certainly
>> give you the choice to delete that last partition, and repartition the
>> now empty space any way you like.
>
> Yes, but IME that makes it more complicated to do the install.

Not as complicated as having to give a whole course on Windows fdisk, and
why you want to put certain partition types where, and how to create those
types, when the the Mfg's program does that automatically, and all the OP
has to do is say how many, and how big.

>> Not knowing the OP's technical skill level, but guessing, by the
>> guestions asked, that it is low, I'm trying to give him a step by step
>> crash course on how to get from A to B without any unnecessary
>> technical side trips, to trip him up.
>
> I'm assuming he'll be more experienced with win/dos disk partitioners
> than the linux installer, so it's best to do as much as possible there.

I'm assuming, that like most Windows users, he has no experience at all
with Win/Dos disk partitioners, which is a much better way to proceed than
to assume a level of expertise not evidenced so far. When I asked the OP
to show the results of fdisk, on his hard drive, it showed a Windows
default type of layout. This would suggest that it was partitioned with a
Mfg's partitioning tool, as that is what most Windows users do.

Windows itself warns that fdisk is a powerful tool that should not be
used, except by an expert. You may know it's not that big of a deal, and I
certainly know its not, but it scares the hell out of most Windows users.
"Mommy says don't touch, I'll get burned, so I don't"

M$ says here are the tools, but don't use them.

Linux says here are the tools, here are the instructions, work with them,
and learn to use them properly.

>>>>>When asked where to put Linux, choose /dev/hda6. As this will be your
>>>>>first Linux, and you will either decide that it's not for you, or you
>>>>>need something more serious, because you do like it, don't get fancy
>>>>>on the partitioning. A swap partition and a / partition will do just
>>>>>fine. Make the swap first, so that you can define the size, twice
>>>>>installed memory.
>>>
>>> Since xandros has its famous four click install, I'd have thought it
>>> can set up swap and / for you. (This was what mandrake did)
>>
>> If the installer gives you the option, it's always better to manually
>> set the partition sizes, rather than rely on the guess of a programmer
>> that's never seen your machine, and has no knowledge of how you will
>> use it.
 
> I'd say trusting the installer is better than blindly saying 2x system
> ram for swap. Once you know what you're doing it's best to choose your
> own sizes, yes.

If the installer correctly sees the installed memory, and allows twice
that for swap, or more, only then, yes. Not knowing what the designer of
the installer had in mind, it's better to manually set it yourself, to be
sure.

Linus designed the kernel and knows it better than anyone. He has given
good reasons for the twice installed memory rule. For most daily use, no
more than half of that will be used, but in some crash situations, all of
what is in volatile memory, must be transferred into swap, as well as what
is already in swap, in order to be saved. If there is twice as much swap
as memory, or more, every thing can be saved. If there is not enough swap,
everything in volatile memory, all the data you are working on, will be
lost.

I trust Linus's judgment on this far more than any self proclaimed "Guru"
that says different.

You started into this thread, with a suggestion that would have destroyed
the OP's system, which tells me you don't know that much about Windows.
Then you try to paint him into a corner, with too little space to function
freely, while learning Linux. You prove that it's not enough space by
suggesting putting any documents on a fat32 partition, circumventing Linux
security in the process, and state that it is not a problem. So now we
know you don't know even the raw basics of what Linux is all about.
Finally you argue about the size of swap, another subject you apparently
know nothing about.

I'm trying to get the OP set up as quickly, and safely, as possible, with
a system consisting of a properly working Windows XP, and the Linux of his
choice, that will be an enjoyable learning experience, not one that will
cause him to throw up his hands, and quit, because of unnecessary
frustration.

What are you trying to do? 

-- 
imotgm

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