Re: Help needed in rec.audio.pro

From: Noah Roberts (nroberts_at_dontemailme.com)
Date: 06/03/05 

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:16:49 -0700

George Jones IV wrote:

>>Rosegarden -> Qsynth -> Jack -> Ardour. Or just Rosegarden by itself if
>>you don't want to use soundfonts and record it to wav.
>
>
> Why not just have it all in one app like Cubase, ProTools, Sonar, Logic,
> Digital Performer, and even the cheapie apps like Magix Studio, PowerTracks
> Pro, Cakewalk Home Studio, etc.. They're all modular and can use 3rd party
> fx and synths without having to go outside of the application itself. With
> Rewire you can add even more to your environment (like Reason, FL Studio,
> Rebirth or other combinations like rewiring Cubase SX3 to ProTools)

 From what I understand of what Rewire is it allows you to tie programs
together no? Sort of like a patch panel inside the computer. Rewire
output of program X into track Y...etc... This is what Jack does. This
is what the -> above represents. (actually since jack is doing the
connecting it should be removed from the sequence in my 'diagram').

http://qjackctl.sourceforge.net/image/qjackctlConnectionsForm1.png
http://qjackctl.sourceforge.net/image/qjackctlConnectionsForm2.png
http://qjackctl.sourceforge.net/image/qjackctlPatchbayForm1.png

Rewire may be prettier, but the object is getting the job done...

But Jack may be a bit different...more integral to the entire setup.
Using Jack you also use connections to reach the sound card inputs and
outputs themselves. So for instance you would connect snd_in1 to
Track1.Right and snd_in2 to Track1.Left and then you could also connect
it to additional tracks and to additional inputs in other programs or
effects. That is but the simplest of things you can do...I haven't
reached an endpoint ever. The level of configurability is quite high
with this system...as I assume it is with ReWire.

Linux also has LADSPA and some VST's work as well. It ends up being a
very similar situation to what you are talking about. However, with
LADSPA effects you can run a program called JackRack and run a line
through it from some output and then into multiple inputs of various
programs....including your multi-track HD recorder.

The reason not to have it all in one place is that it is always better
to be modular. If you can have a system in place to allow the
interconnection of audio applications you don't NEED them all to be the
same thing. You can take the best for your needs and discard what you
don't like. With large monolithic applications you don't have that option.

> How about 300-400ms using a shitty Audigy or SBLive under Linux (with ALSA),
> but being able to get 20ms with the same card under 2000 or XP using
> Creative's drivers (7-11ms if I use the KX Project drivers)

I have that card (sblive! 5.1). Latency is not humanly noticeable. If
the above is from experience then something was screwed up.
>
> Even though a card is supported, basic fuctionality may be all that's
> enabled.

That is true in some cases, but there are many high quality cards that
are fully supported. So if you are building a Linux DAW you get a card
that is and not one that isn't. That seems pretty easy.
>
>
>> and many pro-level audio cards still are not supported under Linux,
>>
>>Nothing made by digidesign...what else?
>
>
> Nothing by Creamware, STAudio, The new Emu series, and AudioTrak's Maya
> series for starters.

Emu support seems to exist now. I was recently talking on the list
about that set of cards and there has been some luck getting them to
work. I don't know at what level.

The maya is talked about here:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=7005818

Unfortunately finding anything on the maya in google with regard to
linux is proving difficult due to some program called maya turning up in
all the searches. Did find a recent request for help in an audio list
regarding one of these things:
http://lalists.stanford.edu/lau/2005/04/0236.html

Which indicates that they are at least partially supported or nearing
it. If this guy's experience is typical or unfixable then it probably
isn't a good card to use in Linux.

At least one creamware device seems to be supported:
http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=2542

Good name...

 From STAudio's Website FAQ on the first card I looked at:
10. Does the card work under Linux?

Yes - we recommend to use the ALSA driver (which you can download on
www.alsa-project.org) to use the card under Linux with the ALSA CVS
versions for the ICE1712 (Envy24) chipset.

I was clued into looking at the site because I saw another mention
Hoontech/STAudio as supported in Linux by name.

If you were really serious about finding out if your particular card is
supported then talking on the linux-audio list would be your best bet.
I am not a developer or an expert on what soundcards work, but with some
google I found the above.
>
>
>>>not to mention control surfaces, USB and FireWire audio interfaces, and
>>>whatnot.
>>
>>What about them?
>
>
> They have no support under Linux, that's what.

If you are talking about mixers and such, Ardour can communicate to midi
based panels at least and both get level information from them and send
level information to them so they change. I don't know much about this
topic and not sure what you are talking about.

  The USB audio interfaces seem
> to have some form of support, but since a lot of the interfaces have
> additional functionality that's not supported, they're still unuseable.

Actually a great deal of USB audio interfaces are FULLY supported. I
think most, if not all of M-Audio's stuff, the tascam, and others. I
have always questioned the viability of a USB sound device but was
thinking I might get one actually.