Re: C or C++ for FOSS/linux?

Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@xxxxxxxxx> typed

[snip]

You cannot compare xforms to qt4. xforms is afaik a pure gui library.
Qt supports socket programming, xml parsing and sql support. It's not
only a library, but a complete toolkit replacing almost a dozen of
separate libraries. That makes it big.
I would never use QT for writing a system tools, but for a userspace
utility with a fancy GUI it's perfect...


This is the tendency of bloat.
The original Unix idea is to have small programs work together.
You can program for sockets in C in xforms too.
You can use libxml as much as you like.
I have even written video + sound applications in xforms, for video
using libmpeg3 IIRC.
Why integrate it in a GUI?

Well, because when writing a gui app, the results of your code are
displayed in gui components. So why not use data structures, that can
be displayed in a gui without the need to reformat them?

It is more after all these years I see the power of using these small
utilities and libs more and more.
Look what it _does_.
If you want to provide any new origial functionality, then you will
still have to code it.
Coding in C is simpler and faster that is Stroussup language.

int *i = (int *) malloc (100*sizeof(int));

I don't know much of C programming, but that is known to me as the way
you allocate an array of 100 integers on the heap in C.
Well, the c++ way of doing that is just simpler to me:

int *i = new int[100]

And for the speed: When referring to the performance of a program, C++
as fast as C. When you refer to the speed of development, it's hard to
judge, because it mostly depends on the experience and ability of a
programmer.

And has all the stuff I need and allows one to add stuff,
and is full GPL.

QT is full GPL, so where's the point?

Well, try to sell something with Qt in it, based on it,
then you need a Troll license.

No, that's plain wrong. The GPL doesn't forbid you, to sell you
software. It only requires you to distribute the software under GPL
license and provide full access to the sources. Otherwise great
distributors like Novell or Redhat wouldn't be able to ship QT or KDE
in their commerical enterprise distributions.
You only need to buy a QT license from Trolltech, when you want to write
non-gpl (e.g. close source) software.

I can design and sell hardware, add the software as GPL no problem.
That software will only work with that hardware anyways.

That case is - in my opinion - covered by the GPL. Having licensed their
toolkit under GPL, Trolltech can do exactly nothing against you, if you
write such a software. But IANAL, so have no proof for my statements.
If in doubt, you should ask Trolltech itself...

Qt 4 is the worst bloat I have seen in Linux since Linux 0.8 came
out.

Well, things have grown a bit since linux 0.8, you know... Did you
ever try compiling a recent all-batteries-included linux kernel with
everything enabled on an old machine? Takes even longer than four
hours...

Compiling a basic kernel with a lot of drivers and functionality takes
less then an hour on a Duron 950, so much less then Qt4.

Well, than trying compiling the glibc or maybe a server suite like samba
or apache. That would take hours, too...
What I'm trying to tell you independently of any certain piece of
software is, that software is much more complex nowadays than it was
during the time of linux 0.8. Not only QT, but software in general...

khexedit was about the only useful program in KDE for me.
Oh and kworldview.
So much for bloat.

Well, that's your taste. There are millions of other people out there
(including me), that think different.

Sure, and many do not think at all.

nice statement...
I hope, you did not extend that on my person, too.

In my opinion KDE is the most
complete desktop environment nowadays and most of the KDE apps are
just fine. KMail is a perfect mail client for me, Knode does its jobs
a news client and Amarok is the best music player ever...

Yes, preferences preferences.

Yes preferences! In the end, that's all that matters. People use
software, because the like it and _prefer_ it over other software.
People write software, because they _prefer_ their own thing over
others. And most people _prefer_ to use a modern software like they
prefer to use a modern technology...
That's the reason, why we're using electrical lights instead of gas
lamps... and dvds instead of video tapes and ipods instead of a
walkman... and Suse 10.2 instead of 7.xx (not that recent suse versions
are better ;) )
It's called "evolution"...

I still have an old Suse-7.?? somewhere on a disk, can always boot in
that. That will run KDE and khexedit.

Well, it seems, that it's your personal preference to unlink from the
modern world.
I guess, that further discussion about this topic is pointless...

--
Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters.
(Rosa Luxemburg)
.

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