Re: Power Supply Cause of Crashes? (Review)

From: W. Watson (wolf_tracks_at_invalid.inv)
Date: 03/20/05 

Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:02:07 GMT

w_tom wrote:

> I don't see one place where you have established a single
> fact. So far the diagnostic procedure has been 'maybe this
> and maybe that' without defining any one component - hardware
> or software - as good. IOW you have confused yourself.
I'll try to overlook these perjorative statement. It leads to digressions.
>
> Lets take the heat idea as example. Any computer must work
> just fine even when the room is at 100 degree F. IOW heat
> creates problems because the hardware has a defect. We use
> heat to find intermittent hardware. Curing a problem by
> removing dust, et al is akin to curing the symptom - or hoping
> the ghosts will be scared off. If dust caused intermittent
> failure, then heat the system hotter to make the problem
> clear, repeatable, and decidedly easy to find.
>
> One problem that can cause strange problems is a power
> supply 'system' failure. First, a power supply is not the
> only component of that 'system'. Swapping power supplies tell
> us little useful information. Provided was a very
> sophisticated method of confirming the power supply system up
I think you are referring to your post. I took care of the easy things first,
dust, connections, etc. I'm looking at your post.
> front. Eliminate that 'system' as reason for strange
> failures. A solution both so sophisticated and yet simple as
> to be performed by junior high school students. It looks
> complex. But it takes only minutes to obtain irrefutable
> conclusions, and to provide numbers that empower other
> technically knowledgeable posters.
What specifically do you suggest I do? Am I missing something in your post? Are
you asking me to measure voltages or pull out an oscillioscope and observe the
wave form? Note that I replaced the power supply with an antec, and got the same
results. Did you notice the review in the subthread in which I summarized
matters, and the prior post in which I discussed the PSU replacement.
>
> No numbers means no one can say even if the power supply
> system (even after swapping power supplies) is stable.
Are you assuming I have a volt meter?
>
> Next on the list is comprehensive hardware diagnostics.
> Confirm hardware without any complications from the OS. If
> your computer manufacturer is not so responsible, then various
> component manufacturer and third party diagnostics are
> required. Run those diagnostics at room temperature. Then
> repeat diagnostics with the component heated by a hair dryer
> on highest settings. Yes, every hair dryer will not heat
> electronics sufficient to properly test. But even a hair
> dryer can make intermittent problems detectable by the
> diagnostic every time. Especially important is testing memory
> while heated since some memory failures cannot be repeatedly
> detected by diagnostics at 70 degree F.
>
> Notice the procedure. Step by step elimination of the
Are you referring the procedure that you just outlined?
> problem. Furthermore I cannot say enough about Floyd
> Davidson's recommendation of not performing a 'nuke and
> pave'. A 'nuke and pave' performed on intermittent hardware
> can only complicate both the problem and its solution.
> Furthermore, what is learned by solving this simple problem
> makes future difficult problems easier. But again, the worst
> time to 'nuke and pave' is when hardware integrity is
> completely unknown. After reading through so many replies,
> you have no idea what is and is not working properly. We call
> that spinning wheels.
Again pejorative. Don't misunderstand me. I appreciate the methodical problem
solving technique, but you are assuming an awful lot about my experience and
availability of technical tools.

What I find is that I get to listen to everyone, and I get to make the
decisions. In group problem solving, the key to it is friendly cooperation and
positiveness. I sincerely appreciate suggestions, but I get to decide what to
do. You may be critical of my methods, but I know where I'm headed with the
information I have and I will take the risks.

I suspect there about 7-8 different people who have responded to my message.
Each one has a different view. This is typical of what happens on a problem. I
find it useful for possible solutions. However, ultimately NGs become cumbersome
on a particular point. Phone conversations, personal meetings, etc. ususally
work faster to clear my misconceptions. This is an imperfect medium.

>
> Currently I see nothing that says you have confirmed
> hardware and power supply 'system' integrity. Currently I
> read too much speculation and no rock solid conclusions. You
> must, by this time, establish what is good. That is how the
> problem's complexity decreases exponentially.
At the risk of being pejorative myself, I can suggest many good sources on such
matters. One can start with Aristotle. "A life unexamined is not worth living."
A little severe, but he's on the right track--self examination. See. I followed
his advice. I thought it might be Plato, and just looked it up. It was Plato. ~
  Plato (c.427-347 BC) :-)
>
> "W. Watson" wrote:
>
>>Giovanni wrote:
>>
>>>On 03/20/05 01:31, W. Watson wrote:
>>>
>>>>OK, let me review the situation.
>>>
>>>Did you try to disable X at boot?
>>
>>How do I disable it at boot? 

-- 
              Wayne T. Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
                  (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
                   Obz Site:  39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet
              "I know that defies the law of gravity, but, you see, I never
               studied the law of gravity." -- Bugs Bunny
                         Web Page: <home.earthlink.net/~mtnviews>

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