Chinese and Linux
From: Guru Google (goorugle_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/16/03
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Date: 15 Nov 2003 22:37:56 -0800
klm <klmok@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<qlhdrvcsv2hfqftlttac9lg8t02e6843db@4ax.com>...
> Its a slow Saturday. So did some surfing on <China Linux> and came up
> with the highlights below. I had formed my ideas on the Chinese
> Linux initiative from general reading and it looks like my take
> pretty much matches what's already published.
Wow! Amazing. What happens match whatever you take -- afterwards. :)
> I am running ahead of events by saying that the China Linux effort is
> dead on account of the very recent SCO-IBM lawsuits. But I think time
> will prove me right on this.
Good luck.
> The highlights below confirm my suspicions that, for all the hype
> about China rushing ahead to adopt Linux, very little had actually
> taken place. The China players, and in reality its a very small
> community, all say Linux is a great idea and have their full support.
> But you don't find them putting in the big bucks and personnel that
> are needed to launch a project of this ambition. Ergo there is no
> great pain or loss in dropping their Linux vapourware promptly.
Hehe, repeat after me. For OS, convenience and supporting software is
still the key.
> That said I believe that for China to develop its national OS as an
> open source project is a bad idea. That opens the door wide for every
> Tom, Dick and Mary to mess with the code and hack it. I would rather
> China develop and dminister it as a secure government infrastructure
> where any attempt to interfere with its utility carries the full
> weight of the law upon the hacker. Who needs the spam mail and
> viruses that had crashed our computers in the recent weeks. The
> frustrations and economic losses in dealing with that curse are
> enormous.
Good idea -- but with China in WTO Beijing cant force its people to
use this secure government project OS and ban other foreign OS.
Especially if you don't open source it, Chinese people just pick
Linux.
If no one use this China national OS, who wanna hack it? Haha.
> There is this fundamental flaw in open source software. If no one
> owns it no one is really in charge. Tovald's control of Linux is
> ephemeral. It works only because no big money is involved so far.
Wrong. You still know too little about Linux. You're just like the
investors years ago, when they hear the five letters L I N U X then
they buy stocks.
> There is the spectre of a Orwellian world that many people associate
> with the CCP should it go ahead with a government owned and controlled
> computer infrastructure for the general public. This is where the
> early inclusion of Korea and Japan into the project will allay such
> fears and create a government(s) owned operating system that will be
> acceptable to the world community. All current and future
> participating governments will be able to contribute to and have
> access to the complete source code. The precedent will be along the
> well worn rules of the International Postal Union. The OS will be
> free to everyone. It will have safeguards that will enshrine civil
> liberties.
And Japan and South Korea is gonna have to open source the results.
And then Chinese people can get open source from Japan and Korea if
China insists close source it, so what's the point?
> This tri-national OS effort looks like a very worthwhile mega-project
> that will improve the quality of life of everyone on this planet. The
> Tri-Orient nations are in a position to undertake the project. Since
> the US is committed to let the private sector develop such projects
> and the EU is not considering such an undertaking at this time, this
> is a historical opportunity for the Tri-Oriental nations to grasp.
On this planet? Keep dreaming. convince the people outside the three
countries why this OS is better than Linux and Windows first.
> Go for it. And do it fast.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> HIGHLIGHTS
Now Mok thinks he got a good search engine.. Hehe.
> 1. http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/01/14/china.linux.idg/
> >( part quote:)The Chinese minister did not specificially say that there was a government ban on using Microsoft Windows 2000, as has been reported recently in the media, Hall said. Hall conceded, however, that he did not directly ask Wu Jichuan about such a ban, but assumed that the story is a rumor.
I highly doubt China can do this now -- China is in WTO.
> >In comments following his address opening the conference here, Hall said Linux is a good choice for China, both for local control of the OS and for security reasons.
> >"I would like to see companies in the Asian market develop their own implementation of an OS rather than depend on companies outside their region for their OS," Hall said.
> >He estimated that fewer than 25,000 people in China are familiar with Windows source code, whereas developers all throughout China can have access to Linux's open code to develop their own versions and applications.
> >As for security, he said military and intelligence agencies around the world have adopted Linux for sensitive systems.
> >"The fact that they don't have to tell some U.S. company what they're doing is reason enough for them to use Linux," Hall said.
That's fine, but again, what you get from open source should be
available back to open source, otherwise China steals. Hehe.
> 2. http://www.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/asia/07/05/hk.linuxshare/
> >(part quote:) Red Hat vice president and managing director Mark White said that Chinese programmers are going against the fundamental philosophy of the open-source movement by withholding their code.
> >But Hong Kong's Sun Wah Linux says Red Hat's comments are rooted only in frustration as the company fails to win a market dominated by domestic players.
> >"Chinese software developers should be able to work on the Linux kernel project, as a peer, with somebody in Finland, the U.S. or Australia, but they are not doing that," White told Computerworld Hong Kong.
> >"They are keeping the source code, (which) means that their product becomes wrapped in it and encapsulated, and in a sense (this is) going against the ideals and benefits of what made Linux useful to them in the first place."
So, Chinese companies already stole from Linux. Shame on them.
> 3. http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3105171
> >(part quote:) "Linux is an opportunity for us to make a breakthrough in developing software," said Guo Zhongwen, vice minister at China's Ministry of Information Industry is quoted saying on its Web site www.mii.gov.cn.
> >While the statement is a clear commitment to Linux by the Chinese government, Guo did not provide specific details about just how much investment the government is going to put into Linux.
Like the number of monks in China, that number is a China state
secret. :)
> But Guo did say "the market cannot be developed on a large scale without government support."
> >IDC has said it expects China's IT market to grow by 20 percent per year with software sales reaching $30.5 billion by 2005.
> >Back in September, China, Japan and South Korea agreed to work on creating a new computer operating system, which would provide an alternative to Microsoft's Windows OS. From all indications, the new OS would be based on open source Linux.
Fine -- but remember to open source the result. Hehe, if China don't
open source it, Japan Diet members and Korean congress members from
oposing parties will force their government to honor the open source
spirit.
> >Along with Microsoft, IBM , Oracle, Sybase and China-based UFSoft and Kingsoft are software players operating in the Chinese market. IDC said the domestic Chinese software market was $800 million in 2002 and is expected to grow 25 percent a year.
If there are not so many Chinese software piracies, guess what this
number can be. :)
> >In a related development, IBM and Kingsoft said they have formed an
alliance to co-develop office software for different operating
systems. Kingsoft is China's biggest domestic office automation
software vendor and is said to be developing Linux-based applications.
IBM and Kingsoft are both interested in driving a wedge against
Microsoft in an effort to prevent Windows from becoming the dominant
software vendor.
Windows is already a dominant software vendor, Mok.
> 4.
> http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/08/09/linux_china/print.html
> >(part quote:) A backlash against Microsoft in the Chinese media has given strength to the open-source community in China, and certain agencies of the Chinese government are embracing Linux with a kind of nationalistic spirit.
But don't forget, the Linux code sitll comes from "the western
imperialist".
> >Open-source software is being touted as the white knight that can save China from a vendor lock-in with Microsoft, a scenario some in China refer to as an "opium dependency," conjuring up images of the unjust British colonialists of two centuries ago.
Fine, but don't forget to make Chinese linux open source.
> >China may already have 2 million Linux users, if one is to believe CCIDNet.com, a popular Web site in China that provides news and information about technology. That's not a bad number when compared to the more than 20 million Windows users.
Nap. Mok, you should read more computer magazines and spend less time
in English People daily. the fact is that Linux takes a big share in
the server market, but still small in desktops, so web sites using
Linux is not a news.
> >But those Linux users are an elite. This summer I met many of the
organizers of the open-source community in China, including some of
the earliest adopters of Linux. But contrary to the gung-ho kind of
attitude I had expected, the Linux movement in China remains largely
limited to small groups of bespectacled systems administrators and
highly gifted computer users. Linux advocates do organize in regular
club gatherings all over the country and in Internet chat rooms, and
you will encounter occasional tirades about Microsoft's business
practices in such places. But nobody expects Microsoft to get replaced
in the household software market anytime soon. Very few Linux fans
even seem to believe that it's their mission to promote open-source
software among the mainstream computer users.
That's the point. Linux is not so convenient than Windows, but it is
so cheap and it has an advantage. But in China, so many pirates there
copying softwares illegaly, and Windows can also be sold cheap, so of
course in China people still opt for Windows.
> >The relatively high cost of Windows licenses and reports of "back
door" files that supposedly give the company -- and possibly the
National Security Agency -- access to individual users' files also
have resulted in a buzz of protest among the Chinese PC community and
in high-tech government departments. The buzz was fueled last year by
a book written by Juliet Wu, who had been general manager of Microsoft
China. In "Against the Wind: Microsoft, IBM, and Me," Wu criticized
Microsoft's high prices and punitive approach to solving the piracy
problem in China. The book became a hot seller and helped to bring
anti-Microsoft sentiment down to the grass-roots level in China.
Then I wonder how she suggest to solve piracy problem in China.....
Like Beijing does with Falun Gong worshipers?
> >Sun Yufang, chairman of a government-funded Linux distribution
called Red Flag Software Corp., emphasizes the economic reasons China
must find an alternative to the Windows platform. In his office, Sun
pointed to the government-issue map of the People's Republic of China
that hung above my head, and proudly informed me that there are
870,000 schools in China -- not including universities. All of them
are going to need to get wired with computer systems, he explained.
If China scraps the Shenzhou project, these schools can have a big
funding .... :)
> >"If all these schools buy computers and software, you're talking about an astronomical amount of money," says Sun. Even if Microsoft gave a 50 percent discount to the buyers of the 5 million computers that will be purchased this year throughout China, the company would still make $625 million.
> >"That is just too much money for the Chinese government and the Chinese people to bear. China is still very poor," Sun said. "Without our own operating system we can't do anything, we're completely at the mercy of Microsoft."
Come on, China is already the country with the third largest foregin
reserve.
But if China wanna use Linux, that's fine. Just obey Linux license
agreements.
> 5. http://www.agitprop.org.au/stopnato/20000225linuxferus.htm
> >Why the enthusiasm? "One of the things that I think is the most important about Linux is people get to do what they want with it," says Linus Torvalds, who started writing the software as a university student in Finland in 1991.
So Mok, do you still suspect Linux didn't come from a virgin birth?
> > Microsoft, then as now the dominant operating system, keeps the
underlying source code for Windows secret, forcing
software-applications developers to bend to Microsoft's applications
requirements and upgrade schedule. Torvalds, on the other hand, made
the software and its underlying source code freely available, and
thousands of programmers, free to fiddle with Linux's underpinnings,
have contributed to its development in the past decade.
So if China jumps into the ship, Chinese contribution to Linux also
has to be made freely available -- that's Linux spirit.
> >The ability to freely distribute and modify Linux "is important -- especially in Asia," Torvalds says. Because Linux is "owned" by its users rather than a single company, software developers in Asia are free to customize and improve Linux to suit local needs and to set their own commercial strategies. "Finally you can have real Asian software companies doing their own work."
And Torvalds didn't say but Linux license agreements say, you gotta
make your modified result source codes open to public.
> >Last year, Linux accounted for 25% of server operating systems and
about 4% of desktop operating-systems sold worldwide, according to
preliminary estimates by International Data Corp. That compares with
almost nothing five years ago and makes Linux No. 2 behind Microsoft
in server software and No. 3 in desktop software, just behind Apple.
An executive with the China unit of a foreign PC maker says Linux was
probably installed on 3%-5% of desktops sold in China last year. This
year that figure could rise to 10%, the executive says. Federal
Software Stores, a Chinese retail chain with 256 outlets, sold 20,000
copies of the latest version of TurboLinux between its release in
mid-August and mid-December, says Li Ruxiong, Federal's president.
Very good. So, many Chinese already embrase linux. Any hope for
another China government funded OS project?
> >China's government and computer industry are interested in Linux for several reasons, industry executives say.
> >
> >SECURITY:
> >Microsoft is a U.S. company and the Chinese government worries that
Windows contains secret "back doors" that allow Microsoft or the U.S.
government to spy on computer users -- an allegation that Microsoft
has repeatedly denied. Qing Sihan, a computer-security expert at the
Chinese Academy of Sciences and vice-chairman of the information
security committee at the China Computer Federation, says: "Linux is
particularly useful for China as the source codes are accessible and
there are almost certainly no back doors which could compromise
security." But China "has not yet made a decision on what kind of
operating system to recommend for computer networks, so different
organizations and ministries make their own decisions."
That's not the point. Mok, you gotta remember computer security is the
weakest link. You have linux and it's more secure than Windows?
fine. You run a software from someone else as root and this software
is not secure? You're screwed.
> >ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT:
> >China's software industry will likely never own more than a small
piece of the domestic market for Windows-related software, but could
play a bigger role with Linux. "Chinese computer programmers have not
been able to create an independent operating system, at least not one
that could compete with Windows, so Linux is just the opportunity
China needs to catch up in the technology race," says a Western
industry analyst in Beijing.
But again, you need to think of a business model for the China linux
companies to make money. hehe, that's the tough part.
> >NATIONAL PRIDE:
> >China's economic nationalism runs deep, and Linux, which isn't
owned by anybody, offers China a chance to participate as an equal in
the global software industry. In an editorial on "information
colonialism" in early February, the People's Liberation Army Daily,
which speaks for China's security-minded military, argued that China
must develop its own software. It wrote: "Without information
security, there is no national security in politics, economics and
military affairs. While learning from others, China should not be
under their control."
Yes,,,,, then China should develop its own OS from scratch for
national pride. Linux, after all, comes from the "western
imperialists".
> >The government has been trying for 15 years to develop a Chinese operating system, but has failed because the global industry moves too fast, says Compaq's Chan. Linux lets China use standard, internationally supported software without being beholden to any one company or country.
Mok, I told you if china government wanna start another SOE.....
> 6. http://counter.li.org/reports/place.php?place=CN
> >(Data on Linux users in China.) China is no. 163 in the density statistics, with 0.824921 users/Mpop
> >China needs 137 more users to pass Senegal and become no. 162
> >Angola needs 1 more users to pass China and become no. 163
That's becuz of China's huge population, right?
Now China sent a guy into space and has national pride, but another
girl in Ningxia cant afford her school study. Think about it.
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