Re: Mail Filters That Use Challenge-Responses (CRs)

From: Mark Ferguson (abuse_at_stop-spam.org)
Date: 04/21/04 

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:12:26 -0700

Alan Connor wrote:
>
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:11:51 -0700, Mark Ferguson <abuse@stop-spam.org> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > CR has merits but it also has problems and can be used for abuse.
>
> How?

Already been covered but you foil cap renders you inable to read I
guess.

> >disagree with CR on the basis of more work to email
>
> No they aren't. They are less work than any other type
> of filter. And a person only has to take 5 seconds out of their
> lifetime to get passlisted.

So you admit to it taking more effort while claiming it does not take
more effort. Foil cap on wrong.

> And unlike other filters, this process GUARANTEES that their
> mail will not be lost because one of the archaic filters
> you recommend has classified it as spam.

You claim it filters junk email, how is CR a filter?

Which filter have I recommended?

Since the filter is used to delete spam, some do this but most use these
filters to reject email how is the email lost? It gets bounced back to
the sender.

Foil cap on too tight? Might consider loosening it.

> > These
> > points are valid and have been made.
>
> They've been made but have never been valid.
> In fact, they are just plain ignorant.

Foil cap problems again.

> > CR does in fact cut down on the
> > spam RECIEVED by the recipient and NOT the spam being sent by the
> > spammer. This has a negative affect on the effort to stop spam.
>
> Nope. When spammers realize they can't get mail into people's mailboxes,
> they will quit sending it. Simple as that.

Foil cap problems again I see. Try turning your cap right side out
because wrong side out seems to not be working for you.

> Nor are there any other filters out there that do anything else but
> keep spam from getting into people's mailboxes, so your statement
> is doubly curious.

How so? How does the spammer know you are using CR so they will quit
sending spam? What I criticize is you and your inability to see that CR
are not filters, they are open for abuse and will not have the desired
affect you think they will have. CR is just like confirmations for
subscriptions and yes they are abused in just hte same manner any CR can
be.

Your continued refusal to accept reality leads me to believe your foil
cap is on either wrong side out or on too tight.

> I don't see you criticizing those OTHER filters for having
> "...a negative affect on the effort to stop spam."

Filters are different for a couple of reason the CR. First let's get it
clear, CR is not a filter.

Filters usually reject email and bounce it to the from field or return
path in the spam. This is almost always forged so this serves no
purpose for spammers. It does however affect a mainsleaze company that
gets listed in spamhaus or the RBL at MAPS. These are conservative
filters and more widely used. Because of this they are respected and if
you get listed you take it seriously so you try not to get listed.

This has a positive networth for the Internet because it is something
mainstream companies MUST consider before using email as a tool for
advertising.

How does CR compare to this?

Now you will of course tighten your little foil cap and forget that I
did not recommend either MAPS or spamhaus even though they both have a
positive net affect on the Internet as do most every filter.

CR does nothing to prevent spam from being sent. Just so you don't get
too confused here the sending of spam is NOT directly related to the
spam actually being delivered into the inbox. A spammer can be on an
intrnanet and still try to send millions of spams.

Is there anything else you need explained to you because it is clearly
obvious you do not understand the difference between filters and CR.
You do not see the short comings of both and I have just been happy to
attribute that to you improperly installing your little foil cap. I
could be wrong and you might not have been paying attention or the
wording of the posts could have been confusing to you.

> AC
>
> -- 

--
Mark Ferguson

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