Re: $PATH

From: Peter T. Breuer (ptb_at_oboe.it.uc3m.es)
Date: 06/17/05 

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:52:35 +0200

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter T. Breuer wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>It used to be that many Chinese had a Western (nick)name as well as
>>>their real Chinese name. This, I think, was to avoid (our) embarassment
>>>when trying to pronounce/spell the names. The world is so much smaller
>>>these days that Chinese words/names are no longer unusual.
>>
>> I don't think chinese names have ever been unusual. There were
>> certainly chinese people at school and at university with me, and that's
>> at least twenty years ago now! I don't get it. I don't have any
>> particular difficulty pronouncing "chen" or "yao", or whatever. I don't
>
> *You* may think you don't have a problem, but unless you speak that
> particular asian language or understand the issues with tone you'll
> *never* pronounce 'chen' or 'yao' properly.

It doesn't matter - they'll never pronounce my name properly either! So
what? Who cares?

> Western spelling of asian
> words has no way of conveying tone and so cannot acurately represent the
> pronouciation of the word.

It doesn't matter - we are writing, not talking. And if we were talking
I would be able to imitate the pronunciation without having to see it
spelled!

> That's why zhang, chang, chung, xian etc are
> different spellings of the *same* word.

Fine. I don't mind.

> Of course this is made worse in
> trying to spell things in different western languages: trying to spell
> 'chang' so that a French/Italian/Danish person could pronounce it the
> same is near on impossible!

It doesn't matter - english has no tradition of words being pronounced
as they are written! It's merely a sign with some relation to the
sound.

> You mention Russian below and western script also has problems here as,
> for example, Boris Yeltsin is spelled Elstin in French and Poutin is
> Poutine (as the 'English' spelling means something very different in
> French! ;-) ).

Well, of course. Means the same in spanish, but they still write
"Putin". There's no confusion. There's also a bread here called "bimbo"
and a coffee called "bonka". So?

>> invent a chinese or russian name for me in order to "save" chinese or
>> russians embarrassment. Why would anyone be embarrassed about
>> (mis)pronouncing a foreign name?
>>
>
> I think this is to do with the cultural aspects of not losing 'face'. Us
> westerners aren't overly bothered by embarrassing situations, but asians
> are acutely aware of them and avoid them at all costs. Hence why there
> is no direct translation of the word 'no' in Japanese (as in the
> opposite of yes) - there just are different ways of implying no without
> actually saying it.

Yes, I know. It is a real difficulty.

> The only reason we don't have the same problem is that English is the
> lingua franca of the global community.

My name might be german, dutch, even russian. I don't see why I should
expect people to prononce it correctly. So I don't see why others
should expect me to pronunce their name as they are used to. A fair
approximation is all I aim for, and all that I expect.

Peter

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