Re: What are the core packages for a desktop's Linux desktop distribution?

From: Netocrat (netocrat_at_dodo.com.au)
Date: 06/19/05 

Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:33:08 +1000

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 08:47:24 -0700, Artificer wrote:

> Hi everyone. As a Hobby I want to build a Linux system from scratch. I
> know there is a lot of information on the subject but I am not absolutely
> sure about the "real" minimum of packages that it would require.

One way to go about this would be to choose a particular distribution and
simply install the minimum amount of packages that you need from that
distribution. Gentoo would be a particularly good choice for this task.

I'm going to assume here that you don't want to do that, but rather want
to gather all the required source files and compile them yourself; and
write the configuration files yourself, etc; presumably to get an
understanding of how Linux works and to really customise/minimise things.

> Here I provide a list of want I think should be there. Please help me
> fill the blanks. By the way I am not a guru so please try to keep your
> answers simple and remember just to provide me with the packages for
> these tasks nothing else unless it will be nice to have.

Artificer I'm not a guru either but where I have experience I'll share
what I know/think. Your use of the term package is a bit confusing
because usually packages are associated with distributions; I'm assuming
you mean a logical grouping of commands/config files/etc that come from a
common place and are built together. I'll let you know when I know what
package the apps I mention come from; otherwise you'll have to find them
yourself.

> Kernel

Go with the most recent stable one available. If using modules, you'll
need the modules tools - this is a package including modprobe, lsmod, etc.
Check out the hotplug program too if you want devices to be created on
demand - build this option into the kernel.

> File System

For partitioning I like parted because it allows you to move and resize
partitions, but the standard fdisk does the job.

You'll need the mount command as well.

I'd suggest ext3 rather than ext2 - journalling means quick fsck on reboot
if power fails. You'll need the tools that come with it - mke2fs, tune2fs
etc - the package is called e2fsprogs and can be found at
http://e2fsprogs.sourceforge.net. Don't be confused that there isn't a
separate command to make an ext3 filesystem - you use the same command as
for ext2 (mke2fs) but just add a -j option for journalling. ext3 is the
same on disk as ext2 except that it has a journal file so they're very
compatible.

> Internet

You'll need the ppp package - pppd, chat, pon and poff do the job well.
If you want a little more dialling automation, wvdial is good. Sometimes
setserial is required to set port properties; I don't have it installed
and haven't needed it.

I don't have DSL and the only time I've used DSL with Linux was with a
Smoothwall firewall and the DSL was ethernet bridged, so there was no
DSL-specific setup - I can't comment on it except to say that it can be
pretty simple if you use a DSL modem with an ethernet port and let it
handle the ppp and then simply send that on to your Linux box's ethernet
card. Otherwise I don't whether the standard pppd handles it or you need
a specific ppp-over-ethernet program.

> Share Documents
 
> Some way to share file with other will also be nice. Maybe NFS of FTP.

NFS is handier but as far as I know not generally supported with a Windows
based client. For an NFS server you need to have portmap, mountd, statd.
Optionally lockd. As well as NFS support compiled into the kernel.

If you want to share with Windows users, Samba is good.

There are many ftp servers to choose from - I have no preference but
proftpd seems to be pretty popular - probably designed more for a large
hosting server than a personal machine though.

> Sound

Depends on whether your sound driver is ALSA or OSS (older and
deprecated). I don't use sound much but when I do I use the aumix program
for mixer settings (including master volume) under ALSA. As for playback,
mplayer is very comprehensive in its support for all sorts of audio and
video formats and it doesn't need an X server for audio playback. It does
have a graphical X interface if you want one. You really don't need
anything else for simple playback, but if you want playlist features then
you will need other programs.

> Xorg or XFree86
>
> I only want this to be able to run Gnome.

I've never built X from scratch on my own - I've done it under Gentoo but
that's automated. No doubt you can simply download the source from Xorg
or XFree86 with instructions and for a basic installation you wouldn't
need more than that. As for Gnome, if you are going for minimalism, I
wouldn't install it - you don't need it. It's not necessary for most
(all?) programs. Instead look at a featureful or minimalist window
manager - I've heard talk of IceWM, Enlightenment, AfterStep, WindowMaker,
... there are a tonne of them. Others will have more informed opinions.

A desktop system like Gnome or KDE includes a window manager but also a
lot more stuff that you don't need under minimalism. Things like a sound
server, panels with quickstart buttons and little gadgets - many window
managers also provide these, print services, a general 'environment'
with a help system etc, and in the case of KDE, a pretty comprehensive
control panel.

You may need quite a few different X-related libraries - some of them
gnome-based - for some programs to run but you certainly don't need the
whole Gnome desktop. Check the library requirements for the apps that
you want to run.

You may want some kind of X terminal program - eg xterm - but if you are
being very minimal you could do without and use the standard text
virtual consoles.

Study the whole X windows environment and your options here a bit before
deciding what you want. It's possible to be very minimalist... eg when I
first ran Linux it was on a 486 with 8Meg RAM and a 500Mb hard disk,
shared with a DOS partition. It installed and ran X fine - loading up
Netscape might have induced some swapping but nothing you couldn't live
with.

> Command Line Tools
 
There is no unix 'format' command; each filesystem type goes about it
differently - eg for ext2/3 it's mke2fs.

I've never tried to find their source packages, but the commands I would
suggest are:
*a shell - I like bash.
*basic filesystem commands: ls, cp, mv, rm, rmdir, etc...
*unix io commands: dd, cpio (never used this myself but you may)
*networking commands: netstat, ifconfig, route, ping
*typical unix utilities: (you may not need these) grep, sed, awk, cut,
sort, wc, time, perl?, python?, etc...
*internet: (you may not need some of these) ftp client (ncftp is good),
ssh client/server, telnet (largely superseded by ssh), lynx (cmd-line
browser), wget (downloading tool).
*NAT/filtering/firewalling: iptables
*compression/archiving: bzip2, gzip, unzip, uncompress, tar
*date/time: date
*nifty utilities: lspci - info on the pci-based cards in your machine
No doubt I've left stuff out ... best to just install as you find a need
if you're really going for minimalism.

> Gnome, Firefox, Openoffice

As far as I know you don't need Gnome for these although you will need
certain libraries. You will require a java virtual machine for
Openoffice. For other dependencies check out their homepages.

> Security?

For user/group management: passwd, useradd, usermod, groupadd, groupdel,
groupmod, chsh, chfn are all basic needs.
For filesystem access: chmod is essential; also chown, chattr are handy;
also umask.

> Package Management

How much management do you want? eg do you need records of what is
installed; do you need dependency management? If so check out Debian's
apt-get tools or Gentoo's portage tools (emerge, etc). Personally I rate
Gentoo's tools as more stable than Debian's... I found Debian stuffed up
its database files to the point where the tools became almost unusable.
Either of these toolsets would require some study to become proficient at
package creation.

If you don't need that much management, then sure, a homebrew system
of tarring and zipping files - perhaps with a generic install script that
runs a specific script in the package if found - would work well.

> Graphical Administrative Tool?

> I want a package that runs on gnome that provide access to the basic
> configurations like TCP/IP , user creation and file permissions. I think
> gnome already provides this but I am not sure.

I don't know of any, but then again I haven't made an attempt to find
any... as far as I know gnome doesn't have anything like this. No doubt
someone has created something that will do some of these jobs but I would
be surprised if there is a free fully integrated package that does all
that. For the filesystem and permissions you could use some sort of
graphical browser if you absolutely don't want to use the command line -
but those that come with Gnome and KDE are pretty bloated - I'm sure you
could find something more minimal.

> And that is all. If you think I need something else is missing please
> let me know but remember that I am not interested on power just in the
> features I just mentioned!

You have forgotten the most important thing - a compiler and related tools
- linker, make, automake etc. This being linux you will of course use
gcc, least of all because building the kernel depends on gcc-specific
features.

You may choose not to install a compiler on your all machines but you will
need it installed on at least one - how else will you build your system?

Well that's my input and if anyone else responds they can just correct any
mistakes or add to the relevant sections, the bulk of it should be out of
the way...