Re: setting up lax security on one ethernet interface while leaving the other strict

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.networking, in
article <8760283d-63ce-45cf-a18d-50d7dd15969f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
David Schwartz wrote:

NOTE: Posting from groups.google.com (or some web-forums) dramatically
reduces the chance of your post being seen. Find a real news server.

ibupro...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Moe Trin) wrote:

Twisting the meaning rather hard, aren't you? The note I include says
that it REDUCES THE CHANCE of a post being seen.

And yet, every such post is in fact seen.

By everyone? Or even most people? Do you have any evidence of that?

Do you feel that if a news server doesn't carry any posts from
group.google.com, or the fairly well documented (posted in
newsgroups - such as news.software.readers) evidence that some
people really do block, delete, or filter posts simply can't be
true? And therefore filters must not exist. How do you know
this is or is not the case?

Actually, from anecdotal evidence, I think it's not true. I see people
who claim they filter out all posts from google responding to posts
from google.

At the moment, I'm still responding to your post, yet I filter posts
from googlegroups.com in other groups (8 of the 81 I try to scan every
day). Don't believe me?

[compton ~]$ grep ^09/2.*linux.misc.*killed newslog | cut -d' ' -f1,3-6
09/20/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 39/39 (14 killed),
09/21/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 33/33 (15 killed),
09/22/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 35/35 (24 killed),
09/23/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 24/24 (16 killed),
09/24/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 44/44 (15 killed),
09/25/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 40/40 (24 killed),
09/26/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 20/20 (4 killed),
09/27/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 41/41 (18 killed),
09/28/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 55/55 (18 killed),
09/29/2008 comp.os.linux.misc: 38/38 (14 killed),
[compton ~]$

Why don't you wander over to comp.os.linux.misc, and look at all posts
since about 14:00 UTC on the 19th. It should be quite obvious why
those posts got killed. What's even more curious is that no one is
replying to those spam posts from google. Occasionally, you'll see
posts from a newbie commenting how much spam is present, and several
regulars replying with "kill all posts with Message-ID ending with
googlegroups.com". Do you think they ignore their own advice?

I'm sure there actually are some servers and some readers who filter
such posts, but I have no idea what the number is. Do you have any
idea?

Absolute numbers? Of course not - I only see feeds from four servers.
But you might _read_ news.software.readers or comp.os.linux.misc and
see if anyone responds to your posts there.

But again, the anecdotal evidence I have is that people who claim to
filter such posts always see them.

Some see replies - and can quote over those, as I did in message
<slrngdtrqf.568.ibuprofin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>. However there are some
people that filter _replies_ to posts from groups.google.com - it's
trivial to do with a news reader ('Xref: googlegroups.com>$' and even
that noise is gone). You _do_ realize that killfiles don't absolutely
have to apply to all groups, don't you?

Okay, you're going to ignore my argument. That's fine. I'll just point
out, again, for everyone watching that you continue to repeat these
arguments even though you know they are incorrect.

On the off chance you actually think these RFCs somehow say that news
is a protocol (which is almost unimaginable, but just in case):

This document specifies the Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP),
which is used for the distribution, inquiry, retrieval, and posting
of Netnews articles using a reliable stream-based mechanism.

So NTTP is a protocol that transfers news. How can this be so if news
itself is a protocol?

So you feel that there are no standards? Usefor seems to call news
articles themselves a part of the protocol.

When I speak of posting from groups.google.com (or some web-forums
which you're ignoring), and suggest they find a real news server, you
really don't think I'm referring to CNN or the Reuters, do you?

No - it's simply that nothing anyone can say or write will change
your mind. You feel that groups.google.com is a news server and
EVERYONE must see every post that originates there.

It is a news server. Your argument that it's not a "real news server"
is genuine idiocy.

And so, following RFC1738 section 3.7 _EXACTLY_ you can read or post
news from/to the groups.google.com server? No, of course not.

It's a web server. It doesn't accept connections to 119 or 563. It
doesn't speak NNTP (which if you read those RFCs you'd discover has
a language of it's own, just as a web server speaks it's own protocol.
It's the same idea as a 'Mail-to-News' gateway. Like google, such
servers are usually spam sewers because the administrator refuses to
address spam/abuse issues, and get filtered for the same reason. You
may also notice that google is ALTERING the bodies of posts - something
not done on a real server. It's not even a reliable archiving server,
because of that "feature".

So do you retract your original claim that posting from google
"dramatically reduces the chance of your post being seen" and now
replace it with an argument about chances that your post may not be
"seen by everyone who views these groups"? Of course no news provider
can assure that every post is seen by every viewer.

I see no reason to change that note - it reflects several years of
observations.

Old guy
.

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