Re: Creating linux and windows partions in the same disk

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:33:55 -0200, Rafael Almeida wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:40:45 -0600
imotgm <imotgmREM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From what you've posted, I don't see it, and Windows doesn't either. My
crystal ball is at the cleaners this week, so I can only rely on what you
post. What you've posted indicates a full disk. Would you care to post
something that would indicate otherwise?

Hum, I've just copied the output from fdisk -l, I didn't even thought
about that, sorry. What cfdisk shows me is:

Name Flags Part Type FS Type [Label] Size (MB)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
hda1 Boot Primary Linux ext2 100.13
hda5 Logical Linux swap / Solaris 1023.94
hda6 Logical Linux ReiserFS 44999.96
hda7 Logical Linux ReiserFS 19999.76
Pri/Log Free Space 56818.56


So, by the end you can see the amount of free space I have on disk.

Warning! this is going to get long. You only posted part of the output
from fdisk -l. You left out the most important parts. Your output from
cfdisk is almost useless, as it gives no details. If someone asks for the
output of fdisk -l post it as such;

fatman:~ # fdisk -l

Disk /dev/hda: 120.0 GB, 120034123776 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 14593 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 1 13 104391 83 Linux
/dev/hda2 14 115 819315 82 Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/hda3 116 768 5245222+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda4 769 14592 111041280 f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/hda5 769 2074 10490413+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda6 2075 3250 9446188+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda7 3251 4948 13639153+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda8 4949 7559 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/hda9 7560 8864 10482381 83 Linux
/dev/hda10 8865 9777 7333641 83 Linux
/dev/hda11 9778 10169 3148708+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda12 10171 11476 10490413+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda13 11477 14592 25029238+ 83 Linux

Note! None of my partitions are set active. Linux does not require the
active flag.

Posted this way, the first information is the size of the disk, then in
the next line the total number of cylinders, with the size of each in the
last line of that block.

Looking at the partition table itself, you can see clearly that it contains
four primary partitions, starting at cylinder 1 and ending at cylinder
14592, which from the information available in the three line header block,
shows the partitions cover the entire disk, with only 8MB left over. The
fourth primary partition is extended, has 9 logical partitions, with every
cylinder accounted for, and all partitions are in proper numerical order.

The rest of the disks are as follows. Note that all are as ordered as the
first.

Disk /dev/hdc: 120.0 GB, 120034123776 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 14593 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hdc1 1 13 104391 83 Linux
/dev/hdc2 14 111 787185 82 Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/hdc3 112 1417 10490445 83 Linux
/dev/hdc4 1418 14593 105836220 85 Linux extended
/dev/hdc5 1418 3607 17591143+ 83 Linux
/dev/hdc6 3608 6040 19543041 83 Linux
/dev/hdc7 6041 8473 19543041 83 Linux
/dev/hdc8 8474 11513 24418768+ 83 Linux
/dev/hdc9 11514 14593 24740068+ 83 Linux

Disk /dev/hde: 160.0 GB, 160041885696 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 19457 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hde1 1 4864 39070048+ 83 Linux
/dev/hde2 4865 9728 39070080 83 Linux
/dev/hde3 9729 14592 39070080 83 Linux
/dev/hde4 14593 19457 39078112+ 5 Extended
/dev/hde5 14593 19457 39078081 83 Linux

Note! This drive is divided into four almost equal partitions, and could
have been four primary partitions, with no extended partition. I chose to
have the last extended, as I might split the last partition into three
smaller partitions later.

Disk /dev/hdg: 200.0 GB, 200049647616 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 24321 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hdg1 1 12161 97683201 83 Linux
/dev/hdg2 12162 24321 97675200 5 Extended
/dev/hdg5 12162 24321 97675168+ 83 Linux

Note! These three disks are filled to the last cylinder. Here again I
could have just had two primary partitions. No real reason for the
extended partition except habit. :)

You can also tell that all of these disks are jumpered as "master" rather
than slave, as each successive drive skips a drive letter.

Disk /dev/sdb: 164.6 GB, 164696555520 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 20023 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb1 1 4876 39166438+ 83 Linux
/dev/sdb2 4877 9923 40540027+ 83 Linux
/dev/sdb3 9924 14970 40540027+ 83 Linux
/dev/sdb4 14971 20017 40540027+ 5 Extended
/dev/sdb5 14971 20017 40539996 b W95 FAT32
fatman:~ #

This disk is reported as /dev/sdb, whereas the rest were /dev/hd(x)
indicating that it is seen as a SCSI drive, rather than an ATA drive. This
could mean that it is an actual SCSI drive, a SATA drive, or a USB drive.
In fact it is a USB external drive, which is why it has a FAT32 partition,
for transferring files to a Windows machine at another location.

All of this information is derived from a simple copy/past from an
x-terminal. No need to type it all out, and eliminates the possibility of
any errors in typing. It shows you, and anyone interested, exactly what I
see, and aids in making a proper diagnosis of a reported problem. The more
accurate, pertinent, information is given, the better the chance of
success in getting the help you desire.

Normally, I'd snip a lot of the following, but to make it a more coherent
read, I'll leave it pretty much intact, this time.

Windows wants to be on the first primary partition, and it wants it to be
set as active. The directories and files can be on a logical partition,
but the ntldr, and boot.ini need to be on the active primary partition. If
the active primary partition is not the first partition, the first must be
hidden. Your first primary partition is a linux partition, so Windows
can't use it. If you want a second primary partition, it should be after
the first, and a third after that. Then if you need more than one more
partition, you make the fourth primary partition an extended partition,
with logical partitions on it, to fill out your needs. Once you create an
extended partition, it should extend to the end of the disk. There's a
reason they're called primary, as they go on first. When you create an
extended partition, you are essentially saying "I don't need any more
primary partitions." You did that when you created the second primary
partition as an extended partition.

I didn't realise that. Although cfdisk let's me add extended partition
anywhere, seems like this is not widely accepted by all operating
systems.

When using fdisk, cfdisk, or sfdisk, you're running as root. Linux assumes
root is God, and knows what he's doing. Linux will happily let you destroy
your system, if you so order it, as root. You have the power as root, to
do wonderful and amazing things. You also have the power to shoot yourself
in the foot, or chop off your hangy down parts, if your not careful.
That's why everyone keeps posting messages to RTFM. It's not to piss you
off. It's to help you gain the information you need, to do the jobs you
need to do, hopefully before your tit's in the wringer, and you're too far
gone to save yourself.

Window is the "weak sister" of operating systems. It has enough problems
finding it's own ass, with both hands, when it's installed as it wishes
to be. Do you really expect it to install on, and run, with any degree
of reliability, from a location it can hardly, if at all, fathom? Good
luck on that one.

I didn't need my windows system to be reliable at all actually, as long
as it doesn't mess with the other stuff on the disk. I think I'll give
up installing it, as I don't see an easy way to do it, it's already more
of a hassle than it's worth.

If you have a use/need for Windows, you need it to be reliable, and
hardened as much as is possible, against all the malware out there, for
your own protection, as well as ours. At the stage you're at, the easiest
way to do it is to put Windows on it's own disk, then further "sandbox" it
by installing it as the second drive, as I said before.

You haven't said what your hardware consists of, up until now. You really
should specify that when asking for help. Is there a pressing reason to
not put Windows on it's own disk? You also didn't specify which version of
Windows you want to install. I've got Win98, and Win2K, on my disk. Win98,
for all practical purposes, needs to be on the active, first primary
partition. Win2K, and WinXP can be on Logical partitions, as long as the
loader mechanism is in the first partition. Linux used to need it's kernel
within the first 1024 cylinders. That's no longer true. Windows may still
have a similar restriction with its boot loader, which would explain the
need to be on the first, active partition. Putting Windows on it's own
drive would guarantee that, without having to re-partition your present
drive.

Bite the bullet, do your backups, partition the drive properly, and
install your systems properly, if you want any degree of robustness.

Is there a good reason for the logical partitions to be by the end of
the disk?

You can make your first primary partition an extended partition, and run
logical partitions from the beginning to the end. The reason to have them
at the end of the disk is to allow the primaries to be at the front of the
disk, where they belong. Linux doesn't care where it is installed. It can
be on a primary or logical partition. It can be on the first drive, or the
fourth drive, or any other drive. I had SUSE 9.1 on /dev/hdh5, when I had
a drive there.

Windows is fussy about where and how it is installed, as it's rather brain
dead about the possibilities. Once it's installed on a disk, the disk can
be moved where you want it. As long as you keep telling Windows it is on
the first drive it will take your word for it, without doing anything to
verify that it truly is. That's why the disk mapping entries in the Linux
boot loader stanzas for Windows work.

Because reading the lilo documentation as Michael Paoli suggested I was
under the impression that it wouldn't matter much where the extended
partition was made. The partitioners I've used so far didn't seem to
give me a warning about doing that.

I repeat, you're root, you're God. Nobody tells God what he can't do. I
repeat again. The location of the extended partition is not the problem.
The location of the primary partitions is.

I'm just curious here, are there more popular operating systems that
will have a problem with a extended partition being the last partition?

No, but they'll most likely have a hissy fit if you try to put a primary
partition after the extended partition.

Am I losing in performance or in disk use by having the second partition
being an extended partition?

If you are, so am I. Look at my partition table for /dev/hdg above. I have
older drives that were originally Windows only drives with four to six
usable partitions. Windows, with multiple partitions, as a rule creates one
primary partition for the operating system, and then makes the second
primary the extended partition for the rest of the disk. The D: drive will
be on hda5. When I put Linux on one of these drives, as a dual boot with
Windows, I left the partitioning as Windows created it, only resizing the
logical partitions and re-formatting them to suit Linux.

This is the best advise I can give you. It's your decision how to
proceed with your machine. Good luck, with whatever you decide. ;)

Thank you for the advise.

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. ;)

--
imotgm
"Lost? Lost? I've never been lost... Been a tad confused for a
month or two, but never lost."
.

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